Recovery, recovery ...

Old 03-04-2008, 09:34 PM
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Post Recovery, recovery ...

Hello, I'm an ACOA and have been lurking here on-and-off for a while.

My mother drank herself to death during a divorce with my father. My extended family is shot through with addiction and alcoholism. I love a lot of my family, but the ones that hurt me the most, the alcoholics on my mother's side -- I can never forgive.

I'm having some rather severe problems launching myself into recovery. I don't want to admit that I need help. It feels like losing the only thing I have.

My dad sent me to a counselor when I was a kid. It felt like the worst betrayal in the world -- my mother, grandmother, and aunt were all vicious, raving, abusive witches and I was the one who was "ill" or "crazy" (my thoughts) and had to get treatment. It was another rejection. There was no justice.

So, after everything settled down and I got away from all the worthless, scheming drunks, (yes, sorry, I do not have compassion for them. They are scum. I never want to see them again.), I decided that if nothing else, I wasn't like my relatives, I wasn't an addict, I wasn't nuts -- I was sane, I was smart, I was better, I would survive. It was my way to get through life.

Well, now, I realize I've been deeply affected. Intimate relationships are impossible for me. Expressing my feelings is very difficult. I'm a perfectionist. I have problems with authority figures. I'm bitter and selfish. I can't get things done. I'm addicted to food and caffeine. I struggle at work. I'm anxious and depressed. I feel I am an intelligent person and I work with other intelligent people, and every day I see what I could have been if my childhood wasn't a trainwreck. I see other people moving forward in their lives, enjoying their success, where I'm stuck in a rut and am terrified of responsibility.

So, this is the problem -- I really don't want to admit defeat. I don't want to say "You bastards won. You tried to destroy me, and you did it. I'm an emotional cripple. Now I have to go through years of therapy and groupwork to lead some semblance of the life anyone with half-decent parenting takes for granted." It's easier to suffer than admit that all their **** got to me. Telling myself I wasn't like them and that I'd be okay once I got out of the mess is what kept me going.

I also really don't relate to the whole "touchy feely lovey dovey" aspect of recovery. It feels like a lie to me -- believe in this fantasy of compassion and love to heal yourself. Life isn't compassionate. The world isn't compassionate. I don't want to love and coddle myself -- I want to toughen myself up so I can fight and survive in this hard world.

Has anyone dealt with this? Does anyone feel the same?

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Old 03-05-2008, 05:12 AM
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Hi Pax,

Your post has really intrigued me. I’ve been thinking and thinking about what to say to encourage you to find the right way to getting where you want to be in your life. I am an adult child of an alcoholic and deceased father, married and divorced an alcoholic husband, have a recovering brother, and am now watching my son going through alcohol and drug addictions. That’s my background.

I also have a pretty strong, independent mother, sister, daughter, and best friend, and I consider myself pretty fierce when I have to be. I’m proud of my survival also, like you, but I’m quite sure I have issues with relationships, so I have not even tried to date since my divorce. I think I am fairly intelligent and can tell you are too.

When I first discovered the term “codependent” I was stunned to see I fit all the symptoms, and that I was considered as sick as the alcoholic in my thought-processes and my survival modes. I was, however, in a severe state of depression at the time, so knowing there was a reason for my numbness and sadness did help. Before the numbness-sadness-depression, I had been very angry at all the alcoholics in my life. I like the anger approach because it’s empowering at the time and does help you to survive incredible odds. Left unchecked, though, I think anger turns to depression and misery if you don’t learn more about how to deal with the ups and downs of life.

One symptom that I think I share with addicts is that I have all the answers myself. That I am “different” from other individuals who have dealt with alcoholism in their lives. My age (now 50! Yikes!) and life experiences have led me right back to where I was in my 20’s, alone and a little mistrustful of relationships. They have also helped to teach me that I am not so different, that I can learn from others, that THEIR experiences have taught them lessons that I should listen to because in the end, we are pretty much cookie-cutter versions of each other in this ACOA existence.

I read a lot about emotional health. I understand that negative emotions of fear, shame, envy and anger do not allow me to grow in my journey of life. Keeping myself away from toxic people, family or friends, is a given. I understand that finding simple joys, laughter, and loving moments with friends and family are the rewards to being emotionally happy and feeling like life is good. It is one thing to “know” the truths, but to maintain them and make them my strengths is difficult. I can easily slip into the negative feelings and project too far into the future with doomsday-type scenarios. Keeping the joy is easier if I take life day-to-day.

I work with kids. Their spontaneity is hysterical. Their ease with laughter, joy and love is infectious. Their innocence is beautiful. I am their role model when it comes to my “job.” But their positive, shining, hopeful, live-for-the-moment attitudes teach me something new every day as well. I encourage anyone with intelligence and a specialty to find a way to share their knowledge with youth. It’s a win-win situation for the adult and the children. And it keeps you more in the moment, rather than in the projecting and worrying thoughts.

I have read here that finding someone whom you admire, whose emotional health you wish you had, is a great way to survival and peace. I do this with my relationships, and it has helped me to come a long way. I take from them what I like, and leave the parts I don’t admire to them. I freely give myself spoiling and nurturing moments each day, and allow myself to find simple joys. A while back, I forced myself to reach out more to my co-workers for friendships, and the response was mutual. Healthy people love to create new friendships. Change and keeping your mind open to new experiences is all part of living the good life. Trying something that would make you more knowledgeable about yourself and others is growth. Fear of change is like anger. It keeps you right where you are and does not allow you to become the person you are meant to evolve to. The lessons of life along this journey are the best teachers, good and bad.

No one wants to dwell in self-pity or sadness. It hurts. It seems weak and wimpy. It does not allow growth and moving forward to a happier, healthier you. But it is something you MUST go through to get to that other side. I have learned that it is not a step you can skip. When you do allow yourself to mourn your losses and grieve through them appropriately, you make it to the other side with valuable life-lessons learned and more peace and serenity in your heart. I know, it sounds very nambie-pambie and touchy-feely, but in truth, it is the key to being a happier you. Acknowledging that those who should have held you close with unconditional love didn’t do their job right is healthy. Teaching yourself how to do the job right (by loving and nurturing yourself) is a step on the path to being a healthier you. You can find the tools to do this, be it through reading, going to groups like ACOA, or in therapy—whatever you are comfortable with at the moment. But you do need to start. You will be so glad you did. I know this is all over the place and is not really definitive, but I felt a need to reach out and tell you I admire your strength and determination, but don’t want you to miss the experience of self-love and self-care either.
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Old 03-05-2008, 06:27 AM
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Yes, I do see where the "touchy feely" aspect can turn someone off of recovery, especially if their skepticism is strong. It really is a leap of faith that one must undertake in order to do this. We've all been through this mess. Our stories are all similar. And I have seen people (myself included) go through this recovery and come out better on the other side.

There is a saying "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results". That's how my life was before recovery. But recovery was something different. An approach to my life that not only hadn't I tried before, but was completely foreign. I tried it, simply because it was different.

As far as the touchy feely, you can take what you want from the readings and the conversations, but I do have one thought on the matter. Our sub-conscious is a very remarkable thing. It has taken us 20, 30, 40, even 50 years of being around alcoholics and their toxic environment to become the people we are today. I've noticed by simply reading these boards of encouragement, reading the al-anon daily meditiations, and emersing yourself in positive thoughts of change, your sub-conscious absorbs these positive thoughts and you simply get better. I can't explain it, but we all have our own ideas of how it works. By removing yourself from toxic situations, and emersing yourself in positive thoughts, it really does make a difference on your subconcious and your daily life simply does get better.

It takes time though, it's a lifestyle change and isn't going to happen overnight. That's where the leap of faith comes in.

I'm not a coddling myself person either, but I do think of the readings, daily meditations, and posts as tools, rather than being touchy feely.
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by PaxAeterna View Post
Well, now, I realize I've been deeply affected. Intimate relationships are impossible for me. Expressing my feelings is very difficult. I'm a perfectionist. I have problems with authority figures. I'm bitter and selfish. I can't get things done. I'm addicted to food and caffeine. I struggle at work. I'm anxious and depressed. I feel I am an intelligent person and I work with other intelligent people, and every day I see what I could have been if my childhood wasn't a trainwreck. I see other people moving forward in their lives, enjoying their success, where I'm stuck in a rut and am terrified of responsibility.

Classic symptoms of anyone who's had to live around an alcoholic.
It does affect us. It does make us crazy.
But, as you will find, if you are willing, help is available. We don't have to be crazy any more.
Taking that first step to recover our lives is necessary for growth.

My mother was a hateful mean falling down drunk for most of my yearly and teen years. The seeds she planted grew into two children who have problems to this day. I am 52. My sis is 42. My sis won't so much as even speak to mom even tho it's been 30 years since my mom quit drinking!
The difference with me now is that I can recognize the manipulation, and refuse to be part of it. It took a while to get here, but I am way better now than even just 10 yrs ago.

Posting here, and learning from others has helped me tremendously.
Alanon's belief system has changed me forever.

It's time for a change isn't it?
Keep coming back.
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:45 AM
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Hey Pax,

I understand what you're talking about. You're me about 20 years ago -- angry, competitive, fearful, bitter, stressed 24/7 in one way or another. Pi$$ed off at what had been done to me, seeing the world as dangerous, seeing everything in black and white only.

I don't have any sage advice. I don't have any idea how I got from there to here. I can just look at the fossil record:

--I dealt with my anger and grief by finding a GOOD therapist who worked for ME, and taking a few sessions. Not a lifetime track. Just a little help, from time to time, someone to listen to me roar and perhaps offer a few strategies for Doing One Thing Differently This Week. I resisted this for a long time, and at first I felt like I was caving. Now I realize how utterly juvenile and stupid that thinking was. This wasn't about THEM any more. This was a contractor I was hiring in the renovation of me.

--I came to see that I was allowing "them" to "win" by not helping myself. I looked at people in my life who seemed so calm, together, resilient, relaxed, and while I hated them for it, I had to admit that I wanted that for myself -- badly. I had to want it so badly that I was willing to do whatever it took to squeegee off all the sh*t that had landed on me in childhood and get to work on myself. The thought that doing nothing, and continuing to stomp angrily through my life, was somehow more honorable than getting better.....was about as rational as sticking myself in the neck with a fork and saying "I'll show YOU people!" That had to go, and eventually it did.

--Dispensing with my misplaced pride long enough to start reading, learning about ACoA behavior, seeing that I wasn't the only one who'd ever suffered like this, all that helped. It was all part of the renovation project which, as a reminder, I was doing for me and nobody else. It's not touchy-feely. It's doing what it takes to get the job done.

--Getting some help from reading no-nonsense hardass people like Byron Katie, who finally got through to me with the question "Who would you be if you didn't have all this pain to think/talk about?" and like Martha Beck, who writes great books (like The Joy Diet) and articles like these: Martha Beck: Yes, It Was Awful...Now Please Shut Up

You spit out the word compassion like it's something distasteful. There's a world of difference between being asked to have compassion for the alcoholics in our lives, and having compassion for ourselves and what we've been through. Until you're willing to do the latter, you won't get far. You're a person deserving of tenderness - from you.

The good news is that I didn't turn into a soft, fluffy, new-age purple spangly bunny rabbit. I turned into a real woman with a clear head and compassion for herself......but also with muscles and a big stick, lest the world decide to try to do this to her again.

Wishing you the same.
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by GiveLove View Post
I turned into a real woman with a clear head and compassion for herself......but also with muscles and a big stick, lest the world decide to try to do this to her again.

Wishing you the same.

I want what you have. This is the best. Thank you. I can't wait to pick out my "stick"....working on the muscles right now!!!!!!!! I needed this today. HP at work...

Last edited by DesertEyes; 03-15-2008 at 10:06 AM. Reason: fixed broken quote
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Old 03-05-2008, 10:18 AM
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I just want to say you are me. I relate to everything you said 100%. Misanthropes Welcome!

How do you recover when you hate the world and the people in it? I have been asking myself this question for years. Oh MOM! You got sober! That is just DANDY! HA!

Bitter...yes bitter.

No one does anything without a payoff, right?

This hateful angry attitude saved my life on many occasions...really helped through school and my teen years...served me well. Fist fights and rage....I was a scary B****H! Period. Girl/Guy...it didn't matter. It didn't even matter if I lost the fight...verbal or physical...I just liked the opportunity to hit someone at least once. Hey....I had to wrestle with my drunk abusive father just to pass through the living room to go to bed when I came home at night. And guess what? I always made it to my room....I wasn't going to tolerate what mom tolerated. I wasn't going to get slapped around....I pitied the fool that tried....

So you are preaching to the choir about touchey feeley mumbo jumbo....

So how does this B***H recover?

Simple. You hit bottom. Have you hit bottom? (rhetorical)

I hit bottom. My HP has a sense of humor. He sent me a fantastic boyfriend who is now my husband. How much fun do you think it is to be married to me? LOADS...

I have a beautiful son. I can remember thinking...I don't know HOW to be a "mom". I am not capable of being a "mom". My HP created a mom out of me. That was progress.

Relationships were/are disasters for me. I was away from any program for 2yrs recently. Life became "unmanageable" again.....

I hit bottom....now I am looking for answers....I became willing...

A person in aa or alanon might ask you, "So how is what you are doing working for you?".

My answer was that it wasn't.

Guess what? When it came to peace, joy, serenity...enjoying my life...I had zero.

I found it was time to take some suggestions from people JUST LIKE ME in recovery. I found out I needed to learn a different way of life. I "became willing". Life has a way of "tenderizing" tough steak like me.

I got sick and tired of fighting my recovery. My "truth" is still waiting for me in the morning, anyway.

Glad you are here....but I know you if I know me...you'll do it when you are ready.

Look forward to seeing you around.

Al-anon slogan: Keep coming back...it WORKS *IF YOU* WORK it.
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Old 03-05-2008, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Wascally Wabbit View Post
But, as you will find, if you are willing...
It's time for a change isn't it?
Keep coming back.
Love this! This is the stuff...
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Old 03-05-2008, 01:16 PM
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Recovery isn't about THEM, it's about YOU. That means you walk your own path when you go through recovery. Recovery was not "lovey dovey" for me either - not by any stretch.

Here is a rough outline of my recovery:

Like you, I was bitter, anxious, had problems with authority figures, had horrible personal relationships etc. *I* decided one day that *I* didn't want to be this way anymore. I let get of caring about *how* I got this way, I decided to focus on figuring out how to *not* be this way anymore because, quite frankly, I didn't like myself.

I took 3 years "off" from humanity. I became a social hermit. I watched people around me, I looked at my own behavior. I read a lot on Zen Buddhism. I still had no idea that my issues resulted from the alcoholics in my life, but I began to make changes based on what I saw in others that I liked and disliked and what I wanted to be like.

I re-entered counseling (I'd done it before, but at each step along the way, I was addressing single-issues, since I didn't know jack about ACoA issues, I wasn't able to look at the whole, and was addressing the parts instead).

I have never attending an AlAnon meeting.

I won't say that I have "forgiven" my parents, but I will say that I now understand them. They only had one tool in their tool box, and when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Now I have pity for them, though I don't feel strongly towards them, either lovingly or in hatred.

I learned to separate the actions *I* wanted to take from the actions others were trying to evoke in me. I learned that *I* was the master of my own actions. I learned to set boundaries and I learned to defend those boundaries. I learned that secrets are only secrets if only one person knows about them. I learned that the sins of my parents are not my sins and that I am not tainted by the decisions they made in their lives.

Entering recovery does not mean you have to do touchy feely lovey dovey things. It means that you are at a point where you don't like your own behavior, and you admit that you can't seem to change it on your own, and you admit that you *want* to change it. From where I sit, it sounds like you've already "entered" recovery, you just don't know it yet, and you're in the early stages of it. Often times, we don't see our own recovery until we can look back on it.

Recovery can feel like the infamous Pandora's Box when you first start. It can be terrifying and feel like you have no idea what is going to come spilling out of you, or whether you'll be able to control it or not. I can assure you that your psyche will not allow any more to come out than you are ready to process at that moment in time. I can also assure you that, whatever path you take in your own recovery, you will be glad you did it in the long run.

I used to tell people that if I met myself at a party, I wouldn't like me. That is no longer true. Now, if I met myself at a party, I could hold a long and interesting conversation with myself and walk away with a positive impression of myself. THAT'S what recovery is about. I'm still not a tremendously lovey-dovey person, that's not who I am. I'm very practical and somewhat geeky. My recovery lead down a path that was best suited to me. There is not just one path to recovery. Finding one that suits you may take a fair bit of trial and error (it took 6 tries, but I've finally figured out what kind of therapist works well for me), but if you are motivated to change, you will eventually find a path that works well for you and doesn't make you feel awkward.
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Old 03-05-2008, 03:55 PM
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This is a really great article. People get so caught up in the endless cycle of complaining that they don't realize NO ONE wants to listen any more. And, no one wants to be around them because where ever they go, a black cloud is sure to follow.
This would be my mother. Chronic complainer. I don't want to listen.
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Old 03-05-2008, 08:03 PM
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Very VERY hard to read though, Wascally, especially when I recognized some of me in there, and realized just how much I kept opening up those old wounds, over and over and over again, because it had become habit to live in the past rather than work to build my future. It's hard reading. There's a fine line between being able to be honest & open about your history, and learning when to say, "Okay, enough, I'm ready to change things now." Tough stuff, that.
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Old 03-06-2008, 06:30 AM
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There's a fine line between being able to be honest & open about your history, and learning when to say, "Okay, enough, I'm ready to change things now." Tough stuff, that.
So true. Oh so very true. One step at a time eh? Just being able to be honest (especially when most of us had been told that it was a Big Secret and not to talk about it) with ourselves is a huge step. Many (if not most) never get there.

Then being ready to change? Yup, that's a whopper.
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Old 03-06-2008, 08:32 AM
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Martha Beck, who writes great books (like The Joy Diet) and articles like these: Martha Beck: Yes, It Was Awful...Now Please Shut Up ...
There's a fine line between being able to be honest & open about your history, and learning when to say, "Okay, enough, I'm ready to change things now."
GiveLove and all --

You are always such wonderful guides. You are so right about how difficult it is to not cross that line from grief to self-pity! I just read the Beck article, and I love the final sentence - the Ojibway saying: Sometimes I go about pitying myself, and all the while I am being carried on great winds across the sky.

I think there's one more quote for my list of inspirations for those times I've lost sight of what's important or the direction in which I need to be putting my energy.

Thanks -
UM
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Old 03-07-2008, 06:03 PM
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Thank you for the responses, everyone. I want to let you know I read every one of them to the end and am really surprised, impressed, and thankful for the time you took to reply. It is really comforting to know people have been in my position and made progress.
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