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Old 01-13-2008, 08:14 AM
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The search continues

Hi all --

Maybe I should have titled this "If this is Sunday, I must be obsessing!"

I'm feeling anxious today - tomorrow starts a new semester and I'm teaching three courses - two which are completely new for me. When I start to feel anxious, I begin to look for things to control ... my family, my body, my mind. I came here this morning thinking about a question I wanted to put out there, and when I reread this thread, I realized the new question was just a variation on the one I started with. I hate these "circle" days when things feel edgy and I need to focus on something but desperately want to focus on something else - something that isn't as important at that moment and so feels safer. These are the times when I understand my sons' and their own battles with perfectionism; I have long used a method of avoiding finding out I can't do something perfectly by merely procrastinating. Today I can't completely procrastinate, and I know I will get myself focused on the few things I have to get done before my first class - I even know that these are good courses I have designed and that the whole thing will be really great once it gets going - but at this very moment, I'm sitting here with my body tensing and my mind despairing and I want so much to just go shake and control someone else.

I have been putting my Wonder Warrior Woman Princess on guard against me and my wish at these times to throw myself against the brick wall that currently is my husband. I know throwing myself there doesn't do any good - for me and my peace of mind, for our relationship and whatever that is or isn't, or for my husband, in case I've decided that I should do it "for him." If you listen hard right now, I would guess you can here WWWP's ululation echoing off my inner heart - she's on the move big time to keep me from "going there."

What is it that makes emotionally unavailable people attractive? I woke up thinking about this. I don't think it's completely self-esteem or my not feeling worthy of someone being emotionally "there." I wonder if it's another part of this control thing - that if I am with someone who is emotionally distant, I get to determine how much I am focused on them. When my second son - my 13 year old - comes and hugs and hangs around, I find myself pushing him away. He's the most sensitive kid - he's incredibly astute about people and situations, and he has an over-developed sense of justice - and he is the farthest thing from emotionally distant; he doesn't just wear his heart on his sleeve, he carries it in his hand and gives it to you. So I look at my relationship with him, and I know that I have pushed him back at times. I work at not doing that - at giving him back the hugs and letting him hang around and trying to explain when I just really need some space and that it's not him but me needing that - but I wonder... If this is what a relationship with an emotionally available person is like and if I find that so uncomfortable, will I be able to stop being drawn to the person who isn't right there, who isn't intuitively knowing that I'm hurting and so comes up to embrace me? My eldest son, at 17, has already learned how to be that reserved man from his dad and his early sense that he needed to protect me, so I know how my actions or lack of them can set the space in the relationship just fine. But while I have friends who are warm and giving like my second son, I wonder if can I let go of this need to pursue and control the distance in order to have a more healthy & intimate love relationship?

Ok, so those are unfair questions - at least in terms of anyone being able to answer them. Who can ever know if I will be able to change? Maybe the more helpful question is "How do I stop being attracted to that co-dependent/controlling relationship?" Is this a boundary thing? Is this another warrior woman thing? Is this really an inner child thing?

And see, I've managed to procrastinate from looking at and addressing what I need to have done for tomorrow. So I guess I will put these things out there, and now take that child in hand and help her find her way back to the table to finish her homework.

Questions, questions, all around ... and not a drop of patience to drink...

UM
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Old 01-13-2008, 09:06 AM
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Hey there WWP

Originally Posted by Uncertain Me View Post
... I have long used a method of avoiding finding out I can't do something perfectly by merely procrastinating...
That's called "fear of failure", and it's very common with us children of "toxic" families. I could never do anything right for my biological family. Being a smart kid I quickly learned that the best way to not get emotionally blasted at the end of a task was to simple not take o any tasks. As a plan B, find some way to distract the adults so they'd never notice I wasn't doing the task.

From what you describe, it sounds like your "little girl inside" is anticipating criticism. She hasn't yet learned that WWP will _not_ hurt her in any way.

Originally Posted by Uncertain Me View Post
... I would guess you can here WWWP's ululation echoing off my inner heart - she's on the move big time to keep me from "going there."...
yup, and since she's a warrior, she would tell you that the best way to attack a brick fortress is _not_ by throwing yourself against the wall. It's by gathering an army of allies and sneaking in thru the back window

Originally Posted by Uncertain Me View Post
... What is it that makes emotionally unavailable people attractive? ...
That question gets asked about once a month "next door" in the al-anon and nar-anon forums. Aka

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ly-alcoholics/

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...tance-abusers/

Check out those forums and see if you find anything useful.

Originally Posted by Uncertain Me View Post
... Who can ever know if I will be able to change? ...
That one is easy. _you_ can know.

Originally Posted by Uncertain Me View Post
... "How do I stop being attracted to that co-dependent/controlling relationship?" ...
You go learn from the al-anon people.

Originally Posted by Uncertain Me View Post
... Is this a boundary thing? Is this another warrior woman thing? Is this really an inner child thing? ...
none of the above, it's a al-anon thing

Originally Posted by Uncertain Me View Post
... I've managed to procrastinate from looking at and addressing what I need to have done for tomorrow. ...
yup. And you have also increased your awareness of this "character defect" so that you can start to overcome it

Originally Posted by Uncertain Me View Post
... Questions, questions, all around ...
Did you ever do that with your parents? Ask a lot of questions? Did your parents go crazy trying to answer all your questions?

Mike
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Old 01-13-2008, 12:04 PM
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Hey Mike -

I knew I could count on you to check in, and then to have useful guides.

That question gets asked about once a month "next door" in the al-anon and nar-anon forums.
I was sure there were answers somewhere on this site. I think I keep resisting the Al-Anon "thing" in part because I don't have a direct connection to alcoholic people - everyone is at least a "step" away (ACoA husband, my mom's sister's ex-husband, etc.) and I feel a bit like a fraud. I hear you when you say that it isn't always the actual alcoholism that's needed to create the damage, but when I read what others who are directly connected to alcoholic people endure, I don't feel like I qualify. Still, I can tell since you keep having the answers, that I must have had more of a disfunctional family - or at least I responded to my family's dynamic dysfunctionally - than I admit. I'll go check out the links you have here.

Did you ever do that with your parents? Ask a lot of questions? Did your parents go crazy trying to answer all your questions?
Are you trying to hint at something here?
My mom, for as much as I can understand she was responding to me as a damaged person herself, would get so irritated when I would keep talking; her statement was "would you please shut up?". (One of my aunts had a much nicer way of letting me know I had talked too much - she would say "You have given us so much to think about already, it would be nice to give us some time to consider that already." ) When my son was born - my parents' first grandson - and he was talker, I worried that my mom wouldn't want to be around him either. Instead, she would let him join her as they would do things around the house, and she would listen as he would spend the whole time telling her stories. I kept wondering who had taken my mom and replaced her with this patient grandma - until I realized that most people become nicer & more patient beings with their grandchildren.

Thanks for the guidance, Mike. I'll go check it all out ... after I get done with my prep for tomorrow.

UM/WWWP (I might need to find another avatar, I think!)
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Old 01-20-2008, 09:22 PM
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Hi all --

I haven't been around for a few days, but I thought I'd put out a quick update. The semester has started well and I'm busy but feeling strong and competent.

The best part that I wanted to post here is that I have been finding my Wonder Warrior Woman Princess really working. She's actually stepping up to stop me from the pointless wall-assault. There was one day this past week when I could feel my insides melting and my will power dripping away, and I pictured this Lucy Lawless/Linda Carter figure in powerful leather bustier and boots stepping in and giving me the strength to distract my attention. I grabbed hold of her and let her pull me to something better, reminding me that I need to detach and hold onto my own insides, wrapping my arms around me in love and facing reality when I feel ready to put myself in a co-dependent head-on crash. I didn't lose my sadness, but I didn't go and push myself into a confrontation. I sat with myself, and I found my own space ok - not the scary or stressed out place I usually try to run from when the anxiety comes a-calling.

I also have been thinking about that little girl, and how she felt the need to protect everyone, and while I think she took on more responsibility than she needed to, I am feeling proud of what she could do. That's a step forward from feeling like a failure because she couldn't do what I expected her to.

I hope you all are having strong days as well.

Cheering all the way, even as it's two steps forward and one step back -
UM
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Old 01-20-2008, 09:29 PM
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Thanx for the update WWP, sounds like you're getting healthier by leaps and bounds. My impression is that you are starting to build a new life for yourself, and that's way cool.

Mike
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Old 02-12-2008, 02:41 PM
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Update - or How come I feel like I'm off the wagon?

Just a note for y'all.

I haven't been posting for a while, in part because things have been going very well this semester and I've been feeling strong. Of course, as soon as that gets to be the status quo, I spin myself into a whirlwind and undermine what I have going!

The past few days have been real doozies, and I think partly b/c I've been feeling "out of control" of so much for so long. I know - intellectually - that I can only control me, but emotionally, I am feeling like I'm on one long road of grasping desperation. I get tired from it all, and even my WWWP seems to be asleep in this grey, too cold and too snowy winter. I try to just sit and be, to hold onto what I feel and not try to fight or explode into the codie panic, but it seems like that's not working. Instead I am challenging my H and wanting him to be what he isn't - and all the while letting him spin me into a mass of broken boundaries and emotions; I'm obsessing over my 17yr son's college choices and creating issues where they haven't even appeared yet; and I'm creating - and listening to "friends'" warnings instead of my friends' encouragements - all kinds of scenarios that make moot and naive the hope for my current career to keep growing at it's pace. My little girl with all of her insecurities is running rampant, my WWWP has left her post and taken all of my patience, and my strength feels about on par with a rubber band. And this is with a month where I have gotten great feedback about my teaching and I've been actively working out! Look out for those days when I'm not so golden and I've gained back lost pounds!

I don't really have a point here, but I guess I wanted to let you all know I haven't gotten so healthy that I've left you. I hope everyone else is having a better winter; for the first time in a long time, I'm finding myself worn thin by the cold.

So hold me in your thoughts, m'friends. I need some encouragement that this isn't the way things are but that it's just a short slide...

(I guess I need to read my own signature's quote more.)

UM
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Old 02-13-2008, 08:21 AM
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Hey Uncertain, nice avatar


We all have slides. This month I've done the same -- really done some backsliding in to stress, old habits, and old patterns of thought. I could've written your post myself!

Maybe today, you can just pick one thing. One teensy item where you feel like you are heading in a direction you don't want for yourself, and give yourself a victory over it.

Maybe you can take a day and not take ANY messages from your H. Or have a talk with your son and come to some place of peace about his college agreements. Or SOMETHING....just something tiny that you can triumph over and start regaining your footing.

Mine is slippery too. I'm NOT working out, my blood pressure is 40 points higher than it was two months ago, I'm not getting kudos for much these days, and I feel terrible about myself. So I'm trying to take my own advice..... I know this is part of my January/February pattern - if I look back in my journals I can see that I almost always feel this way right about now - and so I'm trying not to take it as a crisis. The sun will come, and all will start to get better.

Hugs to you, from somebody who's there with you!

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Old 02-13-2008, 08:32 AM
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GL -
I knew you'd be here for me! I think today's already a better one - for one thing, the sun's out! I don't always have SAD issues, but sometimes in the midst of particularly snowy winters, I seem to sink.

I will use your suggestion for a guide these next few days. I always start to lose sight of the fact that "everything" doesn't have to be fixed! I think part of the slide began when I had a chance to talk with a few (old!) friends from high school, and I heard how damaged their lives had become. The focus on the pain instead of the positive just shaded my own view.

I'll keep you in my thoughts, too. I hope you can find those few things that begin your own climb up. Know, for one, that I think you are an amazing person, if for no other reason but that you give so generously to someone who you only know as typing and an avatar!

:ghug

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Old 02-14-2008, 07:37 PM
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Hey there WWP

I have nothing to add to what GL said, just wanted to send you a (((( hug ))))

Mike
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Old 02-15-2008, 08:01 AM
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So, UM, what small thing have you decided to do?

(not to be a nudge, but.......there's something to be said for loving pressure )

I'll share one of mine with you...well, the only one currently. I've decided to wear clothes to school that I could possibly work out in. You know, stretch pants, a nice sweatshirt. Just in case, say, I decided to walk over to the Gym on campus and put in a half-hour reading while on the treadmill or bike. Which is completely free. And like fifty feet from the door of my last class. And a very happy, friendly, uplifting environment. But which I've never done. For whatever reason. Usually because I say, "I'd like to, but, darn, I'm not dressed for exercise today."

I'm not forcing myself to do it. But my small step is to dress for it, and eliminate the possibility of using that excuse.

How's that? Small enough?

XOXOX
GL

p.s. UM, other peoples' failures are not yours. You might want to consider just praying them some love and hope for better days, and get on with your own growth. YOU are not failing; you are crafting your life out of the strangely-shaped block of wood you've been given recently.
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Old 02-15-2008, 08:59 AM
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Hey GL (& Hi Mike!)

I've decided to wear clothes to school that I could possibly work out in.
Great idea, GL! I have spent the $15 for the semester to have a locker near the small workout place in the student union so I also can't use the excuse of "I'm not dressed for it." I hope it works! Let me know what you find!

For me, I haven't been that specific; I'm just trying to breathe some days. Well actually I guess I've taken on trying to re-direct my anguish. (Ok, so that doesn't say anything...) Try again:

Here's what I did yesterday: over the past few days, myH & I have been trying to work together to find a solution to some of our financial challenges - this one dealt with our house mortgage. I was communicating with a person via phone, and it seemed like a good deal being put together. When the paperwork came through yesterday, though, both myH & I were not so sure anymore - the old "if it seems to good to be true, it just might be" feeling. In an uncharacteristic move, myH decided to read the paperwork closely and he took on talking to a friend who's an expert about the questions. In the end, we decided to not follow up on the deal - just too many uncertainties. When I thought of having to talk to the person who I had been dealing with, though, I just knew that I was feeling very vulnerable and might buckle if that person spoke at all convincingly - as my dad said, con men usually are really nice people!. I started to tear up at the thought that I would fail at the task of telling this person we weren't interested - not that my work in the whole thing was a failure, but that I might fail to stand my ground - which, of course, I "should" be able to do anytime :chatter. So when myH offered to call the person, I said please do and myH did. At the time, I felt horrible - one more failure I thought.

Later last evening, though, I thought about it, and I found myself realizing that I wasn't failing as much as recognizing that I needed to set a boundary - that I recognized I wasn't strong enough inside to stand my ground and so needed to ask for help (in a very uncodie move!). In fact, the whole interaction between myH and me was uncharacteristic, since I didn't say I could fix everything and he was willing to take on a confrontation. And so I recast my "failure" into a success - by realizing that I could let myH take on the task - which he didn't mind doing - and I wasn't the less for it.

Long story, but that's one small thing. I've been trying, since, to reconsider what I have been feeling this week were failures and try to see how to replace that label with "successes." I've gotten through a few.

It helps a great deal that the sun is out (even if the temps are around 0).

Thanks for the gentle nudge, GL. I am feeling better the more I write this out.



UM
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Old 02-22-2008, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by DesertEyes View Post
It does sound silly, but it actually works. This little trick has made a world of difference to me. ...
When I get home from work I take _one_ minute to give myself a few "pats on the back" for the good things I did. For working hard, for keeping the bills paid, for having a good job, for taking care of my little condo.
It's so funny that you do this. I hadn't heard of this technique, but last week I bought myself some of those smiley-face stickers that teachers use (they say "super job!" and "way to go!") and stick them next to completed items on my to-do list instead of checkmarks.
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Old 02-22-2008, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by AbsentFriend View Post
...last week I bought myself some of those smiley-face stickers that teachers use (they say "super job!" and "way to go!") and stick them next to completed items on my to-do list instead of checkmarks.
Hey there Friend

I _love_ that idea!! That is so cool. I'm going to remember that.

Oh yeah, welcome to SoberRecovery, glad to "meet" you

Mike
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Old 02-27-2008, 06:56 PM
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Hi all --

I haven't just dropped off the face of the earth, but our computer's modem has died and I haven't gotten it replaced.

I have to tell you all that one of my challenges that I'm not doing quite so well with is detaching from my older son's emotional depression. I know I have written about my kids from time to time, and I love them to tears. They are not substance dependent at all, but they are burdened with intellectual minds that seek the dark side of the day. Both boys brood and will find issues with the world that they - or anyone - cannot really fix. My eldest decided recently that he needed to talk to someone - that he was tired of feeling so horrible about himself and he wanted to feel better. I applaude his strength, and his dad and I have made an effort to find him a therapist who will be a good match. It was hard today, though, listening to him talk about how horrible he feels about himself - he's the most accomplished, strong, beautiful young man! - and I found myself struggling with the effort it was taking for me to not try to fix his pain with talk. From that, then, I slid into thinking about how my younger son will probably be angry at the world by tomorrow, and that I can't fix that either but that I will struggle with just listening and not rising to the bait.

Between these two and myH, I'm really struggling with the codie wish to fix. I know that I can't; I know that I need to detach and let my sons hold their own; but I fear that they have internalized so many things from me and myH and our issues... Argh! I am falling tonight into my own depression as I think of holding my sons lightly in my heart and not owning their challenges. Sometimes I get so tired...

Anyway, nothing great here. I'm still trying to recast my feelings of failure into recognized actions of strength - and maybe in the midst of this current testing, I need to hold onto the fact that I'm not owning my children's pain - or at least not trying to fix it. I hate the feeling inside, though, and I want to get angry about it or rake myH over the coals of my frustration that he isn't in the house helping me with this.

Sorry for the downer of a post. I was doing great earlier today (I had a young man mistake me as being 10 years younger than I am and was feeling pretty good about me!), but tonight it's downturned. I suspect I need to take some time to meditate and then turn this all over to my HP - but sometimes I'm too tired to do even that...

On another note: Does anyone know how to turn off the snow?

I hope that you all are having a better week. I'm going to send out a group hug in hopes that, like forcing myself to smile, it will turn my mood around. Here's to everyone on SR:
:ghug

(and one more for me )
(now on to tomorrow...)
UM
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Old 02-29-2008, 08:20 PM
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Hey there Wonder Warrior Princess

* I think I got that right, ol' nogging doesn't hold on to things like it used to *

Originally Posted by Uncertain Me View Post
... I know that I can't; I know that I need to detach and let my sons hold their own;...
I think that's awesome. You know what is best for them, how this whole enabling/detachment thing works. Ok, so you're not perfect yet, but you're making progress.

Originally Posted by Uncertain Me View Post
... I suspect I need to take some time to meditate and then turn this all over to my HP - but sometimes I'm too tired to do even that... ...
You know that little saying "One day at a time"? I've had many a time when I was way too tired to turn anything over, or to pray. I've changed the saying and taken it down to "One second at a time" when I'm really down. I'll look at a clock and just focus on the second hand, and take comfort that I've made it thru _one_ second. By the time I've thought that it's been 5 seconds, and so I can focus on the next 5 until I've added up a full 10 seconds.

Ten seconds is enough for me, even in my darkest times. I say my shortest prayer "God, stick with me please", and next thing you know, He stuck with me yet another 10 seconds.

Originally Posted by Uncertain Me View Post
... Does anyone know how to turn off the snow?...
Ship it UPS to Las Vegas, we're gonna need it this summer

Originally Posted by Uncertain Me View Post
... I'm going to send out a group hug...
thanx for the hug, you make them special.

Mike
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Old 03-01-2008, 10:20 AM
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Hey Mike -

You know what is best for them, how this whole enabling/detachment thing works. Ok, so you're not perfect yet, but you're making progress.
You're right, Mike. I can see that now: at least I'm able to know what's needed even if I can't act on it easily. See - another "failure" recast as success.

You know that little saying "One day at a time"? I've had many a time when I was way too tired to turn anything over, or to pray. I've changed the saying and taken it down to "One second at a time" when I'm really down.
I think this is so important. I'm not always (understatement!) good at remembering I don't have to do it all well for a long time. I know that keeping moving no matter what helps- remembering that there will be a better day or moment just around the next clock tick occasionally is my only sense of perspective. I love your idea of one second at a time. I'll try that in my next true-blue state.

Ship it UPS to Las Vegas, we're gonna need it this summer
Boy, I don't know if you know what you're asking for! I can just picture the "strip" dealing with the multiple feet of snow we've had so far! :rof
This winter has been one continual series of snow storms that hit almost like clockwork every Monday or Tuesday. I don't think the local schools have had more than one full day of school for the past three weeks - they keep either starting two hours late, letting out two hours early, or just altogether cancelling because of the state of the roads and the weather. This situation - my exasperation at the weather - is probably one more thing I need to keep turning over to my HP. And the crazy thing is that I usually like snow and winter ...

That last part reminded me about something my mom used to say. She's an ordained Presbyterian minister, and so almost everytime there was going to be a family thing that needed good weather, people would ask my mom to "arrange" it. Her response was "I'm in sales, not management!"

Thanks for the support, Mike. You're great!

UM
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Old 03-01-2008, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Uncertain Me View Post
... another "failure" recast as success.....
That's what works for me

Originally Posted by Uncertain Me View Post
... I can just picture the "strip" dealing with the multiple feet of snow we've had so far! ....
* lol *

Oh we'd manage just fine. We'd put up bleachers and charge 150 bucks a seat so tourists could come watch it melt. We'd package it in little plastic cups with "Viva las Vegas" written on 'em and sell 'em for 50 bucks an ounce. We'd have Elvis ride his Cadillac thru it.

Originally Posted by Uncertain Me View Post
... And the crazy thing is that I usually like snow and winter .......
I understand. Check up on me come 'round august and you'll hear _me_ whining about the heat. 'course, I'm the one who bought a condo out here in the first place.

Originally Posted by Uncertain Me View Post
... Her response was "I'm in sales, not management!"....
* ROTFL * OMG but I love that one!!!!! I almost want to become a minister just so I can use that line!!!!

Originally Posted by Uncertain Me View Post
... You're great!....
awwww ty That's a wonderful compliment.

Mike
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Old 03-02-2008, 08:45 PM
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Hey Mike -

Oh we'd manage just fine. We'd put up bleachers and charge 150 bucks a seat so tourists could come watch it melt. We'd package it in little plastic cups with "Viva las Vegas" written on 'em and sell 'em for 50 bucks an ounce. We'd have Elvis ride his Cadillac thru it.


Now that's something you don't find in the Heartland! It's raining tonight and the warm day melted enough snow that there are flood warnings out; still want it sent out your way? (It might be easier to put into cups ) I'm a little jealous that you might be able to make $50 a cup on this; around here there's no takers except the farmers, and the way this 2008's started, I think they will have more than they want this year too.

I'm doing ok today: no big issues and no big problems - just status quo; I can handle that! Thanks for your thoughts, and yes, my mom does come up with some good ones occasionally.

Hope you've had a good weekend.

Spring's coming for sure!
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Old 03-03-2008, 06:24 AM
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You know that little saying "One day at a time"? I've had many a time when I was way too tired to turn anything over, or to pray. I've changed the saying and taken it down to "One second at a time" when I'm really down. I'll look at a clock and just focus on the second hand, and take comfort that I've made it thru _one_ second. By the time I've thought that it's been 5 seconds, and so I can focus on the next 5 until I've added up a full 10 seconds.
Wow Mike, that took me back a bunch of years (about 15 or so of them, I'd guess). I can remember going to work and, literally, taking it minute by minute. Looking at what I had to do and breaking it down into one minute tasks. Then rewarding myself by allowing myself to go in the bathroom and cry if I made it 5 minutes while staying on task. I think my coworkers thought I had bowel problems

Wow, that was a long time ago, and wow, how much has changed. Now I rarely use that tool, although I have done so recently at a funeral when I had to navigate the airports while not being in the best frame of mind. Anything beyond 'the next step' had to be pushed out of my mind because I could only focus on one thing in addition to the grief.

So these are good tools to have. Even when we've passed further down the recovery path, the tools can be used for situations that have nothing to do with our past.
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