Need insight from an adult children about EXAH and my son
A work in progress....
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: FREE!!!! Somewhere in the Tennessee Mountains
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Need insight from an adult children about EXAH and my son
Hi everyone,
I usually post on the Family and Friends board, but I wanted to ask for input from a different point of view.
Here's the situation in a nutshell (that I have a feeling you are all very familiar with...):
I filed for divorce from my opiate addicted husband of 25 years 2 months ago. After a turbulent couple of weeks, and several charges of contempt for violation of a restraining order, he has been leaving me alone.
He will not, however, leave our oldest (24 years) son alone. He goes to son every day wanting to talk about our marriage and whining about how horrible life is and what a terrible, cruel woman I am, that no one cares about him and that he is going to kill himself if I don't take him back, etc, etc, quack, quack, quack.
None of this is getting him anywhere with me; before I got in recovery from my codependency, I would have been going nuts, calling him, etc., but I haven't reacted at all. I really thought that if I didn't react to his badgering of our son that he would tire of it when it didn't have the desired effect and stop, but he hasn't.
My son has a ton of head knowledge about addiction, and knows in his head that he can't help EXAH. Trouble is, he grew up in this s**t and I believe he goes on autopilot when the quacking starts; especially the old suicide card. (BTW-I firmly believe it is just emotional blackmail. I don't believe for a minute that EXAH would kill himself. He has been threatening to for years!)
I really don't know what I'm looking for here except some words of wisdom from some of you ACoA that have been through this stuff. I know I can't do anything about it myself, and that my son is ultimately the one that is going to have to end the manipulation.
I'm sure that some, or maybe many, of you have had to cut ties with a parent. Would you mind sharing with me some of the things that you said or did and what happened?
Thanks very much! I am sorry that any of you were raised in this madness; I never knew how much my kids were hurting when I thought keeping the marriage together 'for them' was the right thing to do. Ah, hindsight......
Blessings,
I usually post on the Family and Friends board, but I wanted to ask for input from a different point of view.
Here's the situation in a nutshell (that I have a feeling you are all very familiar with...):
I filed for divorce from my opiate addicted husband of 25 years 2 months ago. After a turbulent couple of weeks, and several charges of contempt for violation of a restraining order, he has been leaving me alone.
He will not, however, leave our oldest (24 years) son alone. He goes to son every day wanting to talk about our marriage and whining about how horrible life is and what a terrible, cruel woman I am, that no one cares about him and that he is going to kill himself if I don't take him back, etc, etc, quack, quack, quack.
None of this is getting him anywhere with me; before I got in recovery from my codependency, I would have been going nuts, calling him, etc., but I haven't reacted at all. I really thought that if I didn't react to his badgering of our son that he would tire of it when it didn't have the desired effect and stop, but he hasn't.
My son has a ton of head knowledge about addiction, and knows in his head that he can't help EXAH. Trouble is, he grew up in this s**t and I believe he goes on autopilot when the quacking starts; especially the old suicide card. (BTW-I firmly believe it is just emotional blackmail. I don't believe for a minute that EXAH would kill himself. He has been threatening to for years!)
I really don't know what I'm looking for here except some words of wisdom from some of you ACoA that have been through this stuff. I know I can't do anything about it myself, and that my son is ultimately the one that is going to have to end the manipulation.
I'm sure that some, or maybe many, of you have had to cut ties with a parent. Would you mind sharing with me some of the things that you said or did and what happened?
Thanks very much! I am sorry that any of you were raised in this madness; I never knew how much my kids were hurting when I thought keeping the marriage together 'for them' was the right thing to do. Ah, hindsight......
Blessings,
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Join Date: Aug 2002
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I have never stopped interacting with my parents and I still love them very much.Despite the dysfunction.
It took me a long time to learn how to just say no to them.
When the "quacking ' starts I tell them I simply do not want to hear it and I move into another room till they settle down.
If it continues I will leave.
It took me a long time to learn how to just say no to them.
When the "quacking ' starts I tell them I simply do not want to hear it and I move into another room till they settle down.
If it continues I will leave.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,812
Well....
There was a period of about 5/6 years I did not have contact with my Mom, but it was not a healthy way to respond....
As a ACoA and looking back, I guess I would suggest to your son to decide what he is willing to deal with, set his boundries and then take action... but you cant do that for him. You could however suggest to your son that the next time the ex-husband suggest he is going to harm himself.... the son call in the threat and allow the law to get involved... after all if someone is saying that they will kill themselves, I would think making sure they dont is the most loving thing a child could do....
Bet the ex would stop trying to play that card once the bluff was called.
There was a period of about 5/6 years I did not have contact with my Mom, but it was not a healthy way to respond....
As a ACoA and looking back, I guess I would suggest to your son to decide what he is willing to deal with, set his boundries and then take action... but you cant do that for him. You could however suggest to your son that the next time the ex-husband suggest he is going to harm himself.... the son call in the threat and allow the law to get involved... after all if someone is saying that they will kill themselves, I would think making sure they dont is the most loving thing a child could do....
Bet the ex would stop trying to play that card once the bluff was called.
A work in progress....
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: FREE!!!! Somewhere in the Tennessee Mountains
Posts: 1,018
Originally Posted by Cynay 
the next time the ex-husband suggest he is going to harm himself.... the son call in the threat and allow the law to get involved...
EXAH is doing this to him, i believe, for several reasons. The first and most important one is because he knows he can. He knows son loves him and to him, that is an excuse to manipulate.
I used to think he was so messed up that he didn't know what he was saying. In the last several weeks, though, I have come to the realization that he knows EXACTLY what he is doing. He can play so many different roles to so many different people, and he knows which one to use with whom-especially at church. It just makes me sick!
Thanks for the input!
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: south florida
Posts: 80
the dad will eventualy will stop bothering the son all the time about it. it has only been a few months sence the break up. it wont go on forever.
the dad will bring it up like a broken record every time they ever hang out together though for the rest of his life,your mother this your mother that,if he is one of them kind of guys.
but he will stop seeing the son all the time just to talk about it.
the son is 23 years old. he will and should of already told the old man to cool it and cut the BS and he don't want to hear it no more.
the son .I don't want to call him a kid, he is 23, will need to man up and tell his dad to shut his trap.
what is the dad going over there Crying, like crying with real tears? like boo hoo hoo crying to the son and saying he wants to kill him self?that don't realy sound like dad stuff to me.
if it is more phony than that and you know it is BS, then the son should tell the DAD to shut the ____ up allready and to leave him allone.
I wont hesitate to tell anyone in my life to shut the ____ up ,I will call out BS when i see it. my dad or my mom can't pull no crap on me like that.
the kids are grown they need to be left alone and not have to wory about you two's BS.
what is the dads proablem anyway?did you get the house and the good car?
he proably is pretty bumbed out about the whole deal,and i would not be suprised if this dont take a few decades off of his life expectancy.but at least the kids are grown.all of this crap will pass soon enough.
this guys kids are grown,he don't have a nagging wife anymore to half way keep him in line,he just went though a devorce,he is a junky or pill poper or something and is brain don't work like it should, he aint got allot going for him, he is probably headed strait down the tubes. .......unless he is rich? do you guys got allot of money? if so he will proably snap back. he can get another woman probably younger and keep on doing drugs for a long time in the future.
tell your son to give this guy some tough love.
the dad will bring it up like a broken record every time they ever hang out together though for the rest of his life,your mother this your mother that,if he is one of them kind of guys.
but he will stop seeing the son all the time just to talk about it.
the son is 23 years old. he will and should of already told the old man to cool it and cut the BS and he don't want to hear it no more.
the son .I don't want to call him a kid, he is 23, will need to man up and tell his dad to shut his trap.
what is the dad going over there Crying, like crying with real tears? like boo hoo hoo crying to the son and saying he wants to kill him self?that don't realy sound like dad stuff to me.
if it is more phony than that and you know it is BS, then the son should tell the DAD to shut the ____ up allready and to leave him allone.
I wont hesitate to tell anyone in my life to shut the ____ up ,I will call out BS when i see it. my dad or my mom can't pull no crap on me like that.
the kids are grown they need to be left alone and not have to wory about you two's BS.
what is the dads proablem anyway?did you get the house and the good car?
he proably is pretty bumbed out about the whole deal,and i would not be suprised if this dont take a few decades off of his life expectancy.but at least the kids are grown.all of this crap will pass soon enough.
this guys kids are grown,he don't have a nagging wife anymore to half way keep him in line,he just went though a devorce,he is a junky or pill poper or something and is brain don't work like it should, he aint got allot going for him, he is probably headed strait down the tubes. .......unless he is rich? do you guys got allot of money? if so he will proably snap back. he can get another woman probably younger and keep on doing drugs for a long time in the future.
tell your son to give this guy some tough love.
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: south florida
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by duet_4-8
You are not the first to say this, Cynay. If I were hearing the threats, I would do it in a heartbeat; I will talk to my son again about it.
EXAH is doing this to him, i believe, for several reasons. The first and most important one is because he knows he can. He knows son loves him and to him, that is an excuse to manipulate.
I used to think he was so messed up that he didn't know what he was saying. In the last several weeks, though, I have come to the realization that he knows EXACTLY what he is doing. He can play so many different roles to so many different people, and he knows which one to use with whom-especially at church. It just makes me sick!
Thanks for the input!
EXAH is doing this to him, i believe, for several reasons. The first and most important one is because he knows he can. He knows son loves him and to him, that is an excuse to manipulate.
I used to think he was so messed up that he didn't know what he was saying. In the last several weeks, though, I have come to the realization that he knows EXACTLY what he is doing. He can play so many different roles to so many different people, and he knows which one to use with whom-especially at church. It just makes me sick!
Thanks for the input!
i can imagine what a ,phony,lieing,churchy,wierdo, drunk ,pill poper.manipulitive A hole,this guy is,
In fact i can see him now. ....YUCK!. does he have a comb over bald guy hair cut to ,he does in my head.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 1,086
I agree with cynay. Your son needs to learn to set boundaries and stick to them. About a year ago I nearly went no contact with my parents. I sat them down and had a long (really uncomfortable) talk which lasted several weeks about what my boundaries were and what I was and was not comfortable with. It was there choice as to whether to honor those boundaries or not. They chose to do so. If they hadn't, I would have gone no contact for my own sanity's sake.
You may also want to suggest counseling by people trained to deal with ACoA issues. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy works very well for ACoA stuff, as does AlAnon. AlAnon is free; one-on-one counseling is more tailored to the individual. Each have their benefits and drawbacks. Speaking as an AC, trying to 'fix' it on your own may not ever work. Having a neutral party on the outside looking in can help tremendously, if your son is open to it.
Other than that, unfortunately, this is a step in the process which your son must learn to navigate on his own. I would say offer suggestions to him which may help him (like Cynay's suggestion), but I wouldn't push too much.
You may also want to suggest counseling by people trained to deal with ACoA issues. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy works very well for ACoA stuff, as does AlAnon. AlAnon is free; one-on-one counseling is more tailored to the individual. Each have their benefits and drawbacks. Speaking as an AC, trying to 'fix' it on your own may not ever work. Having a neutral party on the outside looking in can help tremendously, if your son is open to it.
Other than that, unfortunately, this is a step in the process which your son must learn to navigate on his own. I would say offer suggestions to him which may help him (like Cynay's suggestion), but I wouldn't push too much.
On a tear
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Volcano Country!
Posts: 3,221
(((Duet)))
I had to separate myself from my mom when she was still drinking and I was in my early 20's. She got sober when I was 24, but even then... reconcilliation took a few years. She had to teach me I could trust her again.
But I learned that on my own. Today, I think I might have learned it a bit faster if I had attended some meetings, or listened to an ACOA speaker. Have you googled "Alanon Speaker Tape" or "ACA Speaker Tape"? You might be able to get him a "meeting in the car" by getting one or more of those speakers on CD... those have REALLLY made a difference in my recovery. Heck - if your son won't listen to them, perhaps you can!
I had to separate myself from my mom when she was still drinking and I was in my early 20's. She got sober when I was 24, but even then... reconcilliation took a few years. She had to teach me I could trust her again.
But I learned that on my own. Today, I think I might have learned it a bit faster if I had attended some meetings, or listened to an ACOA speaker. Have you googled "Alanon Speaker Tape" or "ACA Speaker Tape"? You might be able to get him a "meeting in the car" by getting one or more of those speakers on CD... those have REALLLY made a difference in my recovery. Heck - if your son won't listen to them, perhaps you can!
On a tear
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Volcano Country!
Posts: 3,221
Originally Posted by carl250r
AWWW man he is a church guy to.Man I feel sory for you. i know the type that is the worst sort of sleaz ball there is.
i can imagine what a ,phony,lieing,churchy,wierdo, drunk ,pill poper.manipulitive A hole,this guy is,
In fact i can see him now. ....YUCK!. does he have a comb over bald guy hair cut to ,he does in my head.
i can imagine what a ,phony,lieing,churchy,wierdo, drunk ,pill poper.manipulitive A hole,this guy is,
In fact i can see him now. ....YUCK!. does he have a comb over bald guy hair cut to ,he does in my head.
Duet - you asked for responses from adult children of alcoholics, and sadly, I think Carl's response is not unusual for those of us who grew up with this stuff. When my mom was still actively drinking (hell, *I* was still actively drinking back then); my attitude was not far different from the one you see above.
Carl - I sent you a PM.
Acting not reacting
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: My happy place
Posts: 1,788
EXAH is doing this to him, i believe, for several reasons. The first and most important one is because he knows he can. He knows son loves him and to him, that is an excuse to manipulate.
Im not playing that game!
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anywhere,USA
Posts: 511
very good question.....
wish I had the answers.
I've been living that life my whole life, my mom was suicidal until I started "doing something" about her words...
she ended up living with me, my hubby and my baby, and I finally had to ask her to leave when my daughter began to get old enough to understand what she was saying...
I told her that I couldn't live on the emotional roller coaster anymore.
Our relationship became very strained for awhile...that's when I began to develop "boundaries"...I guess. Although I didn't know that was what I was doing or what they were called...
I had guilt...
I worried about her...
I didn't wanna be around her...
I still find it difficult...she always wants attention because she's "sick". She's been recently found to not have MS...she's been in a W/C for the last 20 years...
now she's worried that they are going to take away her disability, and make her get a real job.
What the heck am I supposed to say...
what I wanna say is..."I knew it all along! You're just a hypochondriac!"
But I can't...
most of the problems she has...she's created.
I don't want to be like her...
How do I stop and get healthy...instead of learning to be just like her?
AAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!
wish I had the answers.
I've been living that life my whole life, my mom was suicidal until I started "doing something" about her words...
she ended up living with me, my hubby and my baby, and I finally had to ask her to leave when my daughter began to get old enough to understand what she was saying...
I told her that I couldn't live on the emotional roller coaster anymore.
Our relationship became very strained for awhile...that's when I began to develop "boundaries"...I guess. Although I didn't know that was what I was doing or what they were called...
I had guilt...
I worried about her...
I didn't wanna be around her...
I still find it difficult...she always wants attention because she's "sick". She's been recently found to not have MS...she's been in a W/C for the last 20 years...
now she's worried that they are going to take away her disability, and make her get a real job.
What the heck am I supposed to say...
what I wanna say is..."I knew it all along! You're just a hypochondriac!"
But I can't...
most of the problems she has...she's created.
I don't want to be like her...
How do I stop and get healthy...instead of learning to be just like her?
AAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!
A work in progress....
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: FREE!!!! Somewhere in the Tennessee Mountains
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Originally Posted by GingerM
I agree with cynay. Your son needs to learn to set boundaries and stick to them. About a year ago I nearly went no contact with my parents. I sat them down and had a long (really uncomfortable) talk which lasted several weeks about what my boundaries were and what I was and was not comfortable with. It was there choice as to whether to honor those boundaries or not. They chose to do so. If they hadn't, I would have gone no contact for my own sanity's sake.
This continued for a few more days, and then son told him again. The setting of these conversations (if you can call them that) is the business that ex and I used to own but that we liquidated last year. My son bought it out and reopened it, and exah seems to still feel like it is his.
For the last several days exah has left him alone. Hopefully he will continue to do that.
A work in progress....
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: FREE!!!! Somewhere in the Tennessee Mountains
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Originally Posted by carl250r
AWWW man he is a church guy to.Man I feel sory for you. i know the type that is the worst sort of sleaz ball there is.
i can imagine what a ,phony,lieing,churchy,wierdo, drunk ,pill poper.manipulitive A hole,this guy is,
In fact i can see him now. ....YUCK!. does he have a comb over bald guy hair cut to ,he does in my head.
i can imagine what a ,phony,lieing,churchy,wierdo, drunk ,pill poper.manipulitive A hole,this guy is,
In fact i can see him now. ....YUCK!. does he have a comb over bald guy hair cut to ,he does in my head.
He actually has a full head of hair, but 'religious talk' has been one of his favorite weapons. He loves to quote scriptures that he thinks tell the rest of the family how wrong we are, like ones about the wife's role, honor thy father, etc, etc, quack quack......
He actually gave me a book the day after we went to court last week called 'Creating an Intimate Marriage' and told me to read chapter 7, 'Finding Freedom and Intimacy through Forgiveness'.
I chucked it in the closest dumpster!
He is very fond of telling me how bitter and angry I am about the past; he can't get the picture that I am not bitter and angry anymore. I am just done, that's all! Nor does he seem to get that yesterday is not exactly 'the past'.....DUH!
A work in progress....
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: FREE!!!! Somewhere in the Tennessee Mountains
Posts: 1,018
Originally Posted by elizabeth1979
Is it possible that EXAH actually feels sorry for himself and is looking for sympathy?
He has always used our kids to control what I do, ever since the day they were born. I believe he was thinking that he could get son to convince me to try again; he whines about me refusing to go to marriage counseling (been there, done that, didn't work the first three times.......) and how I won't forgive him. He also uses his favorite tactic-I call it 'god talk'-because son is very involved in church and mission work.
Anyhow, things have been relatively calm for the last several days. Thanks for the input!
A work in progress....
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Posts: 1,018
Originally Posted by carl250r
the kids are grown they need to be left alone and not have to wory about you two's BS.
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: south florida
Posts: 80
your son sounds like a great guy and a hard worker.
but the more you say about your EX,the worse he gets.this guy is a total tool!
maybe you could get the word out in town what a douche this guy is.and maybe it will get back to him and he will get the point.
what if you could get another guy to have a few strong words with him?
but the more you say about your EX,the worse he gets.this guy is a total tool!
maybe you could get the word out in town what a douche this guy is.and maybe it will get back to him and he will get the point.
what if you could get another guy to have a few strong words with him?
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