Never feeling good enough...
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Somwhere over the rainbow
Posts: 1,175
Never feeling good enough...
Ok, so having a bit of a struggle lately.
Some background. In a new relationship after being single for five years... by choice. Things are good for the most part... except I find that I am having a relapse back to my childhood way of thinking... for example, she gets upset about something, tells me it has nothing to do with me, vents about it... and when I am looked to for support (i.e. it will get better, hey its just temporary, etc.), I blank. I don't realize I am supposed to say anything. Never had anyone do that for me, didn't even dawn on me that I should offer those types of comments to others... don't see the point as it doesn't really do anything, but it appears important to her that I do these types of things... she says it is reassurance.
From my perspective, having been on my own at 13, I have found it always works out. No one reassured me of that, I just learned it. So, I trust in that. I don't go around seeking reassurance of that fact, I just accept it. This then leads her to say things like "when you do that, I don't feel supported". I, of course, respond with something like "Not supportive, I work six days a week in your business billing like crazy, I help around the house on an equal basis, , I am travelling all over heck's half acre to make money for your company in roads and weather that are terrible, I moved to another town to be with you, I am living in a little one bedroom apartment when I own a four bedroom house (up for sale) where I used to live... what do you mean I don't support you?" This, of course, doesn't seem to go over well.
I also take this "you aren't supporting me" to mean, you are not doing enough, you are not good enough, you are not what I need... which then leads me to say things like "obviously I am not what you want" or "I obviously can't meet your needs, you need someone better than me"... etc. This, of course, sets her off as she is happy with me and can't understand why I respond this way.
What do I do?
I need to learn to be emotionally supportive, but I haven't the first clue how to do that.
I need to learn not to act on my triggers and return to past behaviours (i.e. you need someone better, I am not good enough"), but it happens before I even realize it.
Is there a book, a resource that can help me? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Levi
Some background. In a new relationship after being single for five years... by choice. Things are good for the most part... except I find that I am having a relapse back to my childhood way of thinking... for example, she gets upset about something, tells me it has nothing to do with me, vents about it... and when I am looked to for support (i.e. it will get better, hey its just temporary, etc.), I blank. I don't realize I am supposed to say anything. Never had anyone do that for me, didn't even dawn on me that I should offer those types of comments to others... don't see the point as it doesn't really do anything, but it appears important to her that I do these types of things... she says it is reassurance.
From my perspective, having been on my own at 13, I have found it always works out. No one reassured me of that, I just learned it. So, I trust in that. I don't go around seeking reassurance of that fact, I just accept it. This then leads her to say things like "when you do that, I don't feel supported". I, of course, respond with something like "Not supportive, I work six days a week in your business billing like crazy, I help around the house on an equal basis, , I am travelling all over heck's half acre to make money for your company in roads and weather that are terrible, I moved to another town to be with you, I am living in a little one bedroom apartment when I own a four bedroom house (up for sale) where I used to live... what do you mean I don't support you?" This, of course, doesn't seem to go over well.
I also take this "you aren't supporting me" to mean, you are not doing enough, you are not good enough, you are not what I need... which then leads me to say things like "obviously I am not what you want" or "I obviously can't meet your needs, you need someone better than me"... etc. This, of course, sets her off as she is happy with me and can't understand why I respond this way.
What do I do?
I need to learn to be emotionally supportive, but I haven't the first clue how to do that.
I need to learn not to act on my triggers and return to past behaviours (i.e. you need someone better, I am not good enough"), but it happens before I even realize it.
Is there a book, a resource that can help me? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Levi
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Hey there Levi,
I went thru the _exact_ same thing in my first marriage. I found that there's a world of difference in how us guys relate to the world compared to how the ladies do it. Us guys are all about things and actions, the ladies are all about feelings and words.
There's a whole series of books that helped me understand that, and which completely turned around my communication skills with the ladies.
"Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus: The Classic Guide to Understanding the Opposite Sex"
http://www.amazon.com/Men-Mars-Women...e=UTF8&s=books
The book is very black-and-white about _everything_. It basically says that all men do it this way and all women do it that way, there's no shades of gray. It also takes a very simplistic approach to describing it's premises. With those caveats in mind it is a _great_ book to begin exploring the obstacles in communication between the genders. We read it _together_ and made observations as to how the book applied to us.
The rest of the book in the series are mostly re-hashing this first one in different contexts.
The best summary I have heard is that us guys go thru life as if we were creatures with no ears. We have to do things with our hands (work, money, home repair) in order to communicate our feelings and expect the rest of the world to understand us that way. Women are like creatures with no eyes, they cannot see anything we do and communicate their feelings with words, which us guys have no way of hearing.
Great concept and great book. Has made a huge improvement in my life.
Mike
I went thru the _exact_ same thing in my first marriage. I found that there's a world of difference in how us guys relate to the world compared to how the ladies do it. Us guys are all about things and actions, the ladies are all about feelings and words.
There's a whole series of books that helped me understand that, and which completely turned around my communication skills with the ladies.
"Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus: The Classic Guide to Understanding the Opposite Sex"
http://www.amazon.com/Men-Mars-Women...e=UTF8&s=books
The book is very black-and-white about _everything_. It basically says that all men do it this way and all women do it that way, there's no shades of gray. It also takes a very simplistic approach to describing it's premises. With those caveats in mind it is a _great_ book to begin exploring the obstacles in communication between the genders. We read it _together_ and made observations as to how the book applied to us.
The rest of the book in the series are mostly re-hashing this first one in different contexts.
The best summary I have heard is that us guys go thru life as if we were creatures with no ears. We have to do things with our hands (work, money, home repair) in order to communicate our feelings and expect the rest of the world to understand us that way. Women are like creatures with no eyes, they cannot see anything we do and communicate their feelings with words, which us guys have no way of hearing.
Great concept and great book. Has made a huge improvement in my life.
Mike
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 1,086
My take on the situation:
You two are playing out a script, just like for a play or a movie...
Except your lines in her script are not your lines in YOUR script, and her lines in your script are not her lines in HER script. So each of you has an expectation of how the other "should" respond to a particular 'mark' in the dialog, but you don't respond with the expected 'line'.
There are two ways of dealing with this:
1. You learn your lines and you duly say them at the correct 'mark' in the dialog. She says she's upset by (idiot driver, annoying vendor, work subordinate whatever). You say "Yeah, I could see how that could be upsetting, it's frustrating when....happens" and validate her upsettedness (I made that word up, can you tell?)
2. The two of you can each sit down and discuss your different 'scripts' and the different lines. You can explain where you're coming from and she can accept it with no "shoulds", and she can explain her side of things with no "shoulds". Then you accept that she's that way and she accepts that you are the way you are and each of you appreciate the other for what the other is.
Or you may be able to find a happy medium. Most of the time a situation as you described above, the person is just looking for someone to acknowledge that they are feeling the way they feel and that someone else hears that and understands it. They are not looking for someone to fix it or to dismiss their reactions/feelings as being unimportant because 'eventually it will work out'.
Don't get me wrong, I"m not saying you're angle on the situation is incorrect, just that she's fishing for acknowledgement of her feelings, and by saying "oh it will all work out" is like saying "oh, you shouldn't let that old baggage get in your way, just let it go". It's very dismissive from the recipient's standpoint.
Along with a better understanding of the scripts you're each working from (leading to unmet expectations), a discussion of your triggers about not being good enough probably would help as well. She would then understand (and if she cares, will make some degree of effort to avoid setting those off).
My husband does not say certain phrases which set off all those old tapes in my head in spades. He does not use them at my request. He also likes to offer solutions to my problems, and often will simply ask me "are you looking for a sympathetic ear, or are you looking for a solution?" because he doesn't necessarily understand why I tell him some of the things I do (I think he's coming from a similar place as you are, he knows it will all work out, so what's the point?). Perhaps asking her to clarify might help with the two scripts not matching.
As for those old tapes, you may want to remind yourself regularly that NO ONE can meet ALL of another person's needs. Ever. Period. My husband can't meet every single one of my needs, and I wouldn't want him to. It would be creepy. So maybe this is one need of hers that you can't meet. It doesn't mean she doesn't think you're the bee's knees - I think my husband is the best match in the world for me, and is one of the better humans on the face of this earth, even if he can't meet all my needs. It is possible for you to not meet this one need of hers, without the entire rest of you/your personality/your relationship being not good enough.
For instance, my husband is very much an engineer. He is not very good at being romantic. A little romance now and then is one of my needs. I meet that need with 'chick flicks' or silly dime store novels. He shows me he loves me in a zillion other ways - like having dinner completely ready for me when I get home. A rotisserie chicken, some broccoli and garlic bread eaten at our breakfast bar isn't exactly rainbows and unicorns, but it means that, in his style, he cares very much for me and I am in his thoughts. And I wouldn't trade him for all the rainbows and unicorns in the world. But it also means I need to adjust my expectations of him accordingly.
I'm not sure if this blathering helps or not, I sure hope it does. Remember that just because you aren't very good at one thing does not make the whole of you 'not good enough'. I bet you're not a concert pianist, so does that mean you're a failure? No! Of course not! So you're not very good at playing to her frustrations - that is only one aspect of your relationship, it doesn't mean the whole thing is bad.
You two are playing out a script, just like for a play or a movie...
Except your lines in her script are not your lines in YOUR script, and her lines in your script are not her lines in HER script. So each of you has an expectation of how the other "should" respond to a particular 'mark' in the dialog, but you don't respond with the expected 'line'.
There are two ways of dealing with this:
1. You learn your lines and you duly say them at the correct 'mark' in the dialog. She says she's upset by (idiot driver, annoying vendor, work subordinate whatever). You say "Yeah, I could see how that could be upsetting, it's frustrating when....happens" and validate her upsettedness (I made that word up, can you tell?)
2. The two of you can each sit down and discuss your different 'scripts' and the different lines. You can explain where you're coming from and she can accept it with no "shoulds", and she can explain her side of things with no "shoulds". Then you accept that she's that way and she accepts that you are the way you are and each of you appreciate the other for what the other is.
Or you may be able to find a happy medium. Most of the time a situation as you described above, the person is just looking for someone to acknowledge that they are feeling the way they feel and that someone else hears that and understands it. They are not looking for someone to fix it or to dismiss their reactions/feelings as being unimportant because 'eventually it will work out'.
Don't get me wrong, I"m not saying you're angle on the situation is incorrect, just that she's fishing for acknowledgement of her feelings, and by saying "oh it will all work out" is like saying "oh, you shouldn't let that old baggage get in your way, just let it go". It's very dismissive from the recipient's standpoint.
Along with a better understanding of the scripts you're each working from (leading to unmet expectations), a discussion of your triggers about not being good enough probably would help as well. She would then understand (and if she cares, will make some degree of effort to avoid setting those off).
My husband does not say certain phrases which set off all those old tapes in my head in spades. He does not use them at my request. He also likes to offer solutions to my problems, and often will simply ask me "are you looking for a sympathetic ear, or are you looking for a solution?" because he doesn't necessarily understand why I tell him some of the things I do (I think he's coming from a similar place as you are, he knows it will all work out, so what's the point?). Perhaps asking her to clarify might help with the two scripts not matching.
As for those old tapes, you may want to remind yourself regularly that NO ONE can meet ALL of another person's needs. Ever. Period. My husband can't meet every single one of my needs, and I wouldn't want him to. It would be creepy. So maybe this is one need of hers that you can't meet. It doesn't mean she doesn't think you're the bee's knees - I think my husband is the best match in the world for me, and is one of the better humans on the face of this earth, even if he can't meet all my needs. It is possible for you to not meet this one need of hers, without the entire rest of you/your personality/your relationship being not good enough.
For instance, my husband is very much an engineer. He is not very good at being romantic. A little romance now and then is one of my needs. I meet that need with 'chick flicks' or silly dime store novels. He shows me he loves me in a zillion other ways - like having dinner completely ready for me when I get home. A rotisserie chicken, some broccoli and garlic bread eaten at our breakfast bar isn't exactly rainbows and unicorns, but it means that, in his style, he cares very much for me and I am in his thoughts. And I wouldn't trade him for all the rainbows and unicorns in the world. But it also means I need to adjust my expectations of him accordingly.
I'm not sure if this blathering helps or not, I sure hope it does. Remember that just because you aren't very good at one thing does not make the whole of you 'not good enough'. I bet you're not a concert pianist, so does that mean you're a failure? No! Of course not! So you're not very good at playing to her frustrations - that is only one aspect of your relationship, it doesn't mean the whole thing is bad.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
In my marriage, it's like a dance. Sometimes it is lovely to watch, sometimes sad, sometimes hilarious.
I come from addicted & alcoholic parents. I have the old tapes running, and sometimes I desperately "need" to hear certain things.
My husband comes from a healthy, non-addict family, where he's never had to suffer any of this sh*t. He wants me to feel good, feel supported, but doesn't have a clue what to say.
So we dance around each other: I am trying to learn the dance of not "needing" to hear anything in order to be OK. He is trying to learn the dance of responding in a way that is helpful, even though he has no experience.
But we do it with love, and with humor, and I think that's what makes it work.
The other night, dealing with my much-loved addict brother, I really needed him to react to me in a certain way. And of course, not being clairvoyant, he didn't, and I felt abandoned and alone.
The next day, clearer-headed and at the suggestion of a friend, I sat down and made some flash cards out of heavy stock paper and a Sharpie magic marker. They said things like:
JUST SIT ME DOWN ON YOUR LAP AND HOLD ME CLOSE. DON'T SAY ANYTHING.
ASK ME "HOW IS THAT MAKING YOU FEEL RIGHT NOW"?
ASK ME WHETHER I'M JUST JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS. ASK ME IF I KNOW WITHOUT ANY DOUBT THAT WHAT I'M WORRYING ABOUT WILL HAPPEN.
MASSAGE MY HANDS, AND TELL ME THINGS WILL GET BETTER.
And so on and so forth. And I laughed while I was making them, and laughed when I gave the pack to him and said, "Next time, just pick one. Whatever it is, it'll be the right thing because you're showing me you give a sh*t." He was relieved....like he just got a road map helping with learning his dance steps. And I got to take a hammer to some of my old tapes. "Need" indeed.
Anyway......that sort of thing won't work for everybody but it worked for me. I'm not a mind reader and neither is he, but we're both trying to evolve into healthy, helpful partners.
Best of luck to you in dancing your dance, leviathon. The book mentioned above really is a good one. You might also learn a little more about the Keirsey or Myers-Briggs personality types, or read the book "Gifts Differing" ....things like that helped me HUGELY to see that different people simply communicate differently, that it's nothing dire or insurmountable once you know what your style is and she knows what hers is. That sort of stuff also helps Mr. GL and I find common ground to get closer rather than farther apart.
Good luck!
GiveLove
I come from addicted & alcoholic parents. I have the old tapes running, and sometimes I desperately "need" to hear certain things.
My husband comes from a healthy, non-addict family, where he's never had to suffer any of this sh*t. He wants me to feel good, feel supported, but doesn't have a clue what to say.
So we dance around each other: I am trying to learn the dance of not "needing" to hear anything in order to be OK. He is trying to learn the dance of responding in a way that is helpful, even though he has no experience.
But we do it with love, and with humor, and I think that's what makes it work.
The other night, dealing with my much-loved addict brother, I really needed him to react to me in a certain way. And of course, not being clairvoyant, he didn't, and I felt abandoned and alone.
The next day, clearer-headed and at the suggestion of a friend, I sat down and made some flash cards out of heavy stock paper and a Sharpie magic marker. They said things like:
JUST SIT ME DOWN ON YOUR LAP AND HOLD ME CLOSE. DON'T SAY ANYTHING.
ASK ME "HOW IS THAT MAKING YOU FEEL RIGHT NOW"?
ASK ME WHETHER I'M JUST JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS. ASK ME IF I KNOW WITHOUT ANY DOUBT THAT WHAT I'M WORRYING ABOUT WILL HAPPEN.
MASSAGE MY HANDS, AND TELL ME THINGS WILL GET BETTER.
And so on and so forth. And I laughed while I was making them, and laughed when I gave the pack to him and said, "Next time, just pick one. Whatever it is, it'll be the right thing because you're showing me you give a sh*t." He was relieved....like he just got a road map helping with learning his dance steps. And I got to take a hammer to some of my old tapes. "Need" indeed.
Anyway......that sort of thing won't work for everybody but it worked for me. I'm not a mind reader and neither is he, but we're both trying to evolve into healthy, helpful partners.
Best of luck to you in dancing your dance, leviathon. The book mentioned above really is a good one. You might also learn a little more about the Keirsey or Myers-Briggs personality types, or read the book "Gifts Differing" ....things like that helped me HUGELY to see that different people simply communicate differently, that it's nothing dire or insurmountable once you know what your style is and she knows what hers is. That sort of stuff also helps Mr. GL and I find common ground to get closer rather than farther apart.
Good luck!
GiveLove
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Somwhere over the rainbow
Posts: 1,175
Wow, so I am not crazy. Thank you all for your support and suggestions. I will work on those. I know our relationship is solid and it is for life, I just have to work on my stuff and she has to work through her stuff. TOgether we can do anything, and you are right, I cannot meet all of her needs and she cannot meet all of mine. I discussed that with her actually.
Peace Levi
Peace Levi
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Peace, Levi
If you're willing to work at your "stuff" as partners (helping each other out on demand with a deep breath, ideas, creativity, a good laugh, a kick in the a$$ now and then...) rather than as adversaries, you'll be really amazed at what you can create together. You just gotta figure out what your styles are and then compare notes & figure out how to meet in the middle. It's not as hard as it sounds if you're willing to leave your egos on the shelf.
The downside is that all of those TV shows where the couples can't stand each other 50% of the time aren't funny to us any more....they just seem sad and wasteful. Oh well...to each his/her own!
Luck and peace and love to you
You deserve it
GL
If you're willing to work at your "stuff" as partners (helping each other out on demand with a deep breath, ideas, creativity, a good laugh, a kick in the a$$ now and then...) rather than as adversaries, you'll be really amazed at what you can create together. You just gotta figure out what your styles are and then compare notes & figure out how to meet in the middle. It's not as hard as it sounds if you're willing to leave your egos on the shelf.
The downside is that all of those TV shows where the couples can't stand each other 50% of the time aren't funny to us any more....they just seem sad and wasteful. Oh well...to each his/her own!
Luck and peace and love to you
You deserve it
GL
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Somwhere over the rainbow
Posts: 1,175
Thank you for the support GL. As for the tv shows, like any of that stuff is real anyways.
Unlike past relationships that I have had which turned bad, this one is different in that we both are strong enough and healthy enough to identify when things are bothering us and to talk about them. Sometimes you are right, sometimes you are just over sensative, but regardless, we are working our way through them.
It is actually really a nice change.
Peace, Levi
Unlike past relationships that I have had which turned bad, this one is different in that we both are strong enough and healthy enough to identify when things are bothering us and to talk about them. Sometimes you are right, sometimes you are just over sensative, but regardless, we are working our way through them.
It is actually really a nice change.
Peace, Levi
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