How do I change...

Old 12-14-2006, 07:38 PM
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Meg
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How do I change...

what I do when she doesn't change what she is doing? That's my big questions for the last few months and I am really grateful to have found some people that may be able to offer insight and support. I posted in the newbie section as well but here is a little background...

I am 23 and have an alcholic mother. She was WONDERFUL while my brother and I were growing up. She was a single parent but we could have never wanted for more love, attention or support. When both of use left for college and she had a business fail things went downhill fast. Days before my 21st bday I ended up taking her to the hospital for a "migraine" only to find out her BAC was 4 times the legal limit. There had been problems for months and I suspected alcohol for many reasons but on the same hand ignored it. Following that bday she detoxed in my apartment at school. I had wonderful friends who helped me "look after her" to make sure there were no problems during the detox all during finals week. Following that I decided she may benefit from moving in together. All went well unless I left town for a weekend and then we were back where we started. I continued to try and support her, get her help and understand but I am at a point now where I can't help anymore. I can't understand the lying, deception and the what seems to be a complete lack of concern for what she is doing to herself, me and my younger brother.

Things have been coming to a head more and more lately as we moved cross country, again moving in together, and me continuing to trust that there was some progression towards recovery. Tonight actually came to her slapping me which she has never done before although I was provoking her.

Sorry this is so long I just needed to vent and am hoping to hear some advice and/or words of wisdom.
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Old 12-15-2006, 06:28 AM
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Hello there mcerra...

I don't really know what to tell you right now - as I am in the same boat in some sense and feeling a little vulnerable at the moment. I just wanted you to know I am listening and I know what you are going thru. Hopefully someone else will chime in with advice!

Strength to you....
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Old 12-15-2006, 11:47 AM
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Welcome to SR... Im glad that you found us.

Boy, your post rips at my heart hon because there really is nothing you can do.

I know that is not what you want to hear, but you Mother has to want soberity otherwise nothing on earth will keep her from drinking. Its a disease hon and just like any other disease its progressive. It does get worse.

What you can do though is get some help and support for yourself. I personally use Al-anon and it is working for me... I learn there the tools to use with Alcoholics, I learn about enabling and what Im doing that is not helping the situation and Im with people who really do understand.

Posting and reading here can help as well, getting it out and talking about it somehow makes me feel better. Keep posting and reading... Your not alone in this.
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Old 12-15-2006, 06:56 PM
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Meg
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I guess...

I understand that it is her problem and it could get worse but I don't know that I can go the detatchment route yet. I have fears that she will drink too much some day and actually die. How can I ignore that?

I have so many conflicting emotions right now and I think a support group may be best but I also have the mindset that it is HER problem and I shouldn't have to take my time to deal with it.

I appreciate your responses you two. LilGirl I hope you find what you need as well. This is the most difficult thing I have ever been through.
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Old 12-16-2006, 08:03 AM
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I have fears that she will drink too much some day and actually die. How can I ignore that?
You probably can't ignore it. What you can do is admit that you are not powerful enough to change another human being or bend them to your will. You can accept that these are the choices she's making and that you are not at fault for her choices. Her choices are hers to make.

Or you can take the 'reality' bent - she is going to die. She could become sober and get herself clean and get hit by a truck. She could have a heart attack and be dead tomorrow - sober or not. We're all going to die. You can not stop her from dying any more than you can stop her from drinking.

I do think a support group or a therapist could help you sort all this out. It's a very tangled web of feelings, and very difficult to pull all the strings apart and deal with each one. It helps to have someone who isn't as emotionally involved to tease apart the ball of emotions and help you examine them one by one.

I also have the mindset that it is HER problem and I shouldn't have to take my time to deal with it.
Ah, yes. It is her problem as the source. But obviously, it is creating a problem for you as well or you wouldn't be posting here. The goal in AlAnon or other similar support groups is not to fix your mother, but to help you deal with all the issues you're having right now being a 'satellite' of an alcoholic. Unfortunately, this disease doesn't just affect the person who has it. It spreads like a mold onto everyone in the vicinity. You aren't taking the time to deal with HER problem, you're taking the time to deal with YOUR problems created by her issues. Those problems are yours, not hers. She is dealing with her problems by hiding in alcohol. How are you dealing with yours? (tone of voice there is not challenging or aggressive, but neutral and caring)
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Old 12-16-2006, 03:05 PM
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Thanks for your thoughts Ginger. I didn't take that comment as agressive at all. Remember I am a provoker so I can take it. lol

I read a lot on codependency last night as well as detatchment. I am pretty proud to say that in one day I feel I have made a big step although I know I have ways and ways to go. When she called today, as I was out running errands with the dog, and said she was sad (she is afflicted with severe depression as well right now) I came home on my own time and asked her 3 questions before we started the conversation.

1. When is the last time you drank? (Leading up to the point that I won't talk to her when she is drunk)
2. Are you suicidal? (I think this is my biggest fear right now and I knew it would be easier to let that one go if she said no which she did)
3. What are you hoping to get out of this conversation?

I listened to her thoughts about her depression, told her my "boundaries" which include not talking to or seeing her when she has been drinking and that I won't be fixing her problems, worrying about her anymore or telling her what to do. She agreed it was a good move for me and I asked her to continue to respect it. Her big worry was how can I separate when she is drinking and when she is depressed (they look exactly the same). I told her I can't and I won't try because it isn't my worry.

The conversation continued on, didn't end well but I left when she got angry and at least now she has heard my thoughts. From this day on I will try my hardest to stick to what I have set up today. I know it will evolve but it was a start.
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Old 12-16-2006, 05:23 PM
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That's wonderful progress! I hope you can maintain it! I find that when I start slipping into old patterns, coming here and reading other's posts always puts me back on track again.

Seeing "You didn't cause it, you can't control it, you can't cure it" repeatedly helps me a lot. Reading other's posts and others' replies helps me to keep that resolve at the fore of my easily addled brain.

You go! Good for you!
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Old 12-17-2006, 03:32 PM
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Meg
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So far so good. She visited a friend in rehab all day so I got to spend some quality time with the dog (yes I talk about my dog a lot ) and not worry about her.

Is it ok for me to wonder if she is getting anything out of visiting the friend in rehab or is that part of me giving advice and trying to fix her problem? (Note I will not ask her about it) It is so hard to draw these boundaries.
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Old 12-18-2006, 06:59 AM
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It is so hard to draw these boundaries.
Bwahaha! Sorry, it's funny only because I spent a lot of years with a therapist trying to learn what a boundary was, forget how to set and defend one. If you can find the boundary, you're halfway there - no, you're well over halfway there! So good on ya!

It's perfectly normal to wonder if she's getting anything out of visiting her friend. It would be similar to wondering if someone was getting anything out of, say, a tour of a local prison or a movie you found to be very emotionally moving. Wondering is okay. Trying to change the person or getting into big arguments over it is not okay.

If you had a different relationship, I would say ask her what she thinks of her friend's recovery/rehab. Not if she's getting anything from it, just what she thinks in a curious tone. I'm not sure how strained your relationship is with her or if you think you could maintain a neutral tone in asking.

The boundary is that her decisions are hers. You can inquire into her thoughts on subjects, but that's where it ends. I'm trying to think of a good analogy, but I haven't had my coffee yet, so nothing's coming to me.
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Old 01-14-2007, 06:30 PM
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So sorry that you are going through this. Have you thought about attending a ACOA meeting? I find them to be helpful.
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Old 01-17-2007, 07:40 PM
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Meg
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I have thought about attending meetings.

Mom and I actually had a long talk the other night about all of this. We are VERY close and I think that is why it hurts so much. She didn't show signs of being an alcoholic until I was in college so unlike many others I had a wonderful childhood and got to know my mom.

About the meetings though, I told her that if I go to something like that it makes it seem as if her being in this state is a permanent thing. My exact statement to her was I don't want to learn coping techniques for a sitaution I am hoping won't be around forever. I know it doesn't make much sense but it is so hard to think that she could never get "better"

Not sure if that all makes sense.
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Old 01-18-2007, 06:55 AM
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The meetings give you good advice not only for alcoholism. The meetings give good working skills for *anyone* with a dysfunctional personality.

What I learned from AlAnon and from these boards and from a couple of therapists helped me first in my marriage, then in my place of work with one particular person who has some serious issues, THEN finally with my parents.

I actually think a tremendous number of people - be they associated with alcoholics or not - could benefit from a few AlAnon meetings.

I do understand that you're seeing it as making the situation permanent if you go to the meetings. But if you think about it, you're not. You're making changes in YOU, not in her. You can't change her at all, you're not that powerful. But you can change how you view yourself within your world - whether it be with your mother or other people around you. Many of the skills they teach are also quite useful in the business world, particularly if you're in a customer service position (either low end, like waitressing, or high end like corporate sales).

Hopefully this helps with your fear of 'making it permanent'. Learning skills does not make a situation permanent, it simply gives you more tools to get through life with. The bigger your toolbox, the more likely you are to be happy.
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Old 01-18-2007, 07:10 AM
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my mom drank all the time when i was a child... she also did a lot of really bizarre things. It took her into her mid forties b/f she finally grasped reality and realized she had to change.

What actually did it was that my youngest sis, all of five, called the cops on her... she ended up in jail for child abuse (over night), my older brother read her the riot act and refused to bail her out, child welfare was going to intervene unless she did x, y and z. Well, while it took that to get her to STOP, she has stopped and remained stopped.

Unfortunately, as many have said, until she is wanting the change, you can't do anything to help her. On the other hand, you can do something to help yourself... put distance between her and yourself, don't live with her, hold her accountable for her actions, don't allow her to talk/be around if drinking, etc.

Peace, Levi
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