Sparklekitty, I ask this with love. What is real? I think this is why addicts have such a hard time recovering. Society believes they are a lost cause. It's okay for a soccer mom to carry a gun but a scared homeless addict who is trapped in a hellish world trying to survive his severely punished. Before he relapsed he had received 3 promotions at work to achieve one of the highest levels of maintenance at an amazing company. He was making 27 dollars per hour. He worked 2 jobs and went to school full time to earn his certification. I was so freaking proud of him. He gave selflessly to everyone he encountered. He did all of this while struggling with severe adult adhd. He has lost everything he worked so so hard for. Isn't this when he needs the most support now that he has hit rock bottom? I am completely open to the idea of accepting that he is a good for nothing but I am not convinced. If I hadn't seen him put his life back together with the vigor of an Olympic athlete going for gold then I might accept that he is beyond help. That's why I am on this forum.