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Old 12-30-2018, 03:01 PM
  # 8 (permalink)  
Gottalife
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
 
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Originally Posted by Guener View Post

* I do find that what I am seeking is trans-formative. I cannot be the person that I was previously, fundamentally.
I think this hits the nail on the head perfectly. The question is 'How can this be accomplished?"

Back before AA, the famous physician told one chronic alcoholic that he had never had any success in treating people in whom the condition existed to the extent that it existed in him. Jung knew of a few rare cases where severe alcoholics had recovered after what he called "vital spiritual experiences". Professor William James gave 22 lectures on this subject.

More recently I have heard Professor of psychiatry Doug Selman state that there are still cases for whom the only hope is some kind of "conversion experience". Still more recently I heard Professor Jordan Peterson talking about what he called "Mystical experiences" which are brought about through the use of psychodelic drugs. I guess that would be similar to Bill Wilsons ideas with LSD, later found by Selman's researchers to have some validity.

Peterson says that although it is not known how these experiences happen in the scientific sense, as in the mechanism is not well understood, the results cannot be argued with. The subject is a completely different person, and you can't argue about that.

Jung and Selman have one thing in common, even though they live in different times. After many years of clinical experience with chronic alcoholics, neither can suggest a therapy or process that will help such severe cases, beyond the idea that some kind of conversion experience is needed.

William James in his book, Varieties of Religious Experience documents many examples of such experiences which appear to have occurred on a random basis, as in the sufferer was not under treatment or actively even seeking such an experience. The person was totally transformed just the same. What this suggests is that it can and does happen outside of AA or even seperately from any religious connection or belief in the individual.
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