Originally Posted by
awuh1 
The problem I am having is with the term "untreated alcoholism". Alcoholism is not "treated" in AA, it is addressed. Substance use disorders and alcohol use disorders are treated by treatment professionals.
In AA we use "untreated alcoholism" to describe "dry drunk", but "untreated alcoholism" is the politically correct term. I didn't want to offend anyone with "dry drunk".
Depression is a diagnosable condition, alcoholism is not. Alcoholism is not.
True, but the problem is that alcoholism looks a lot like depression. I'm referring to the "bedevilments" from the big book Tommyh listed on an above post.
I've heard circuit speakers say that newbies often appear to be bipolar, and in the treatment center business he sees them being given meds when all they really needed was a spiritual awakening. So how do we tell the difference, if they present so similarly?
Alcoholism is a mental illness that a spiritual solution helps people to recover from. What other mental illnesses can people recover from spiritually? It's interesting to discuss. Alcoholism is a mental illness that looks a lot like other mental illnesses, so how do we differentiate?
Substance and alcohol use disorders are frequently the focus of treatment and are often related to each other. This relationship, however, is not the same for every individual who has both of these conditions. I think you do a good job of pointing this out Pathwaytofree.
Yes, but then why do so many people go in and out of treatment centers, and others do fine just by taking away the alcohol or the drugs?
Bill W's depression continued well into the 1950's. More than 20 years after he got sober. Lets be clear. Bill did not get sober as a result of the steps. He got sober as a result of a spiritual experience/awakening.
With all due respect, this is incorrect.
Bill got sober as a result of doing the 6 steps from The Oxford Group, which led to a spiritual experience/awakening. Then he and the first 100 wrote the big book/the 12 steps to teach others how he got sober. His spiritual experience/awakening was a result of the 6 steps, which are the same as the 12 steps. See page 263 of the big book. Also this might be covered in the book "AA's Comes of Age" or "Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers". There's definitely information online about this on the websites that focus on AA history.
His experience/awakening did not lift his depression
It is very interesting to note this point, however. So is it fair that it's confusing to tell if someone's still depressed after they did the step work, is it that they didn't do the steps right, they missed something, they're back into "untreated alcoholism" living in ego/fear/drama, or that perhaps they're underlying depression didn't go way?
There were few options for the treatment of depression when Bill got sober. Thankfully that has changed enormously. There's a great deal that can be done to treat depression, and everyone who suffers from it should be made aware of this.
Yes, excellent points. I am very curious as to what type of psychiatric/psychology there was back then.
Sponsors should be guides for working the steps. They can also frequently be very good spriritual advisors and friends. But they should not attempt to act as therapists.
I strongly agree to this. It can cause a lot of damage if they try to act as therapists under the guise of it being sponsorship.
Thanks for a good discussion Pathwaytofree.
Thank you for contributing to the discussion! :-)