Originally Posted by
Tommyh 
great question
page 52 describes a few systoms of alcoholism beside being drunk
We were having trouble with personal relationships, we couldn't control our emotional natures, we were a prey to misery and depression, we couldn't make a living, we had a feeling of uselessness, we were full of fear, we were unhappy, we couldn't seem to be of real help to other people
add the deeper things of anger,fear,selfish behaviors,selfish motives,etc
add kind, considerate, patient, generous; even modest and self-sacrificing at times plus they may be mean, egotistical, selfish and dishonest. A wide variety.
Thanks Tommy a great reminder of the bedevilments. So let me ask you something, did these exist because of the alcohol? Isn't it "untreated alcoholism" when these exist when "just not drinking" and not doing the step work? So how do you tell the difference between "untreated alcoholism" and "clinical depression"?
about depression,I have heard it said clinical depression does not respond to the 12 steps.We are alcoholics,not trained in this area.I failed to recognize it in 2 past sponsee`s before and later they killed themselves.
I never heard that before, and that is interesting. I am sorry about your two past sponsees. What was it that would have clued you on to "clinical depression" versus "untreated alcoholism"? To me they look the same and it's confusing.
we are not Dr`s,just alcoholics.Thats why I think going to get outside help saves lives.
I agree. That's why as much as I love The Dr.'s Opinion it's confusing. And as much as I think my HG is one of the strongest around, they do damage when the chairperson constantly brings up the same story he tells about the first time he went to therapy, talks down about it in a "joking" way, and how he didn't therapy, he needed a spiritual awakening.
in the 2 guys who had the depression who killed them selves,they wouldn`t touch the steps.One appeared to think about it and the other dismissed it quickly.Now if someone asks me to sponsor them,and does not want to work the steps,I suggest they get outside help.
That is a very interesting point and something I will definitely keep in mind as I sponsor people. I was taught that if someone doesn't want to do the steps, then they are in self-will run riot and are selfishly doing recovery their own way. When I struggled in the pits of hell because my 4th step took an incredible long amount of time, I was told repeatedly and in a harsh tone of voice that I was choosing fear instead of trusting God, I was in self-will, ego, drama, etc. That was a bunch of b*llsh*t.
I should've done my 4th step with my therapist. He tried to suggest it, but I wouldn't listen because I drank the AA koolaide that this was MY fault I wasn't getting through my 4th step. Oh and instead of seeing the trauma in my resentments, I was told wow you don't seem that angry, yet look at how many resentments you have. You are selfish because you wanted everyone to act the way you wanted them to act. Um, no. It's not selfish if you don't want to be abused. How in the world is that SELFISH? If someone helped me to see that the people who harmed me weren't doing it because it was personal, even though they made it out to be like that, it wasn't my fault, etc., then that would've been a hell out of lot more helpful.
depression versus sitting on the pity pot are sometimes confused as the same.I think they are separate.I was depressed a lot early on and sat on my self pity pot a lot.But...the people in AA got me going in the steps and a few other things and it changed my attitude.Over time,both disappeared
I agree!! They are DEFINITELY separate! When someone talks repeatedly about an issue that happened to them in the past, perhaps they are talking about it because they can't get the record to stop replaying! Not that they are looking for pity or seeking attention! Maybe they need help PROCESSING and RESOLVING it for once and for all! I also had the "self pity" sh*t thrown at me and what I was told and then thought was "self-pity" all over my self-seeking part of "my part" in my step 4 I think was much more likely to be plain old DEPRESSION that I didn't have the tools to resolve.
I am glad your self-pity and depression disappeared, Tommy. You certainly have given a lot of wonderful support to everyone here on SR.