Wow. I am so elated to have clicked on the original Secular page to find this and that. I do not know much of anything about either. However, traditional NA does not work for me as I am Agnostic..and other reasons. This AVRT makes a lot of sense also. I have some reading ahead of me..only had time 2read about 4comments. But, this makes SOOO much sense. I am just estatic. This is my 1st time sober in many many years and this defiantly gives me some hope.