Kanamit, I listened to the one hour broadcast with Jack Trimpey. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. I thought he would talk more about avrt than he did but it seemed like the host and the caller that was on diverted the conversation a little bit. What I found interesting was that he seemed to equate stating that you never have a desire to drink with being the av. I didn't quite get that. Also, he brought up the morality issue of drinking and by thinking of it as bad as say, robbing a bank. So if you think it's immoral you won't do it. Like I said previously, I am still waiting for my book to arrive so I think these issues will become clearer when I finally get to read it. I know there was mention on here about the morals, but I can't find the post now.