This post presents a good opportunity to discuss AVRT.
Originally Posted by
JeffreyAK 
Who's the doer? That's the inconsistency I see in Trimpey's view, one of many fundamental errors IMO - you can't split yourself in two and call part of you the "AV" or "The Beast", someone else, yet not acknowledge there is a difference between YOU the person and that other person you become as an addict.
Addictive Voice Recognition Technique DOES recognize the "difference between YOU the person and that other person you become as an addict." (See the RR definition of "addiction" below.) Please be aware that this "other person" has nothing to do with the under-the-influence person. It only has to do with the ambivalence the person has about the idea of drinking some more when sober. For instance, while I did have organic difficulties like hangovers, etc., the only "other" going on with my character and personality was this ambivalence about drinking some more. When not drinking, I was still who I was. This condition of ambivalence in "addiction" is what actually initiates the motivation to take advantage of AVRT. So, when I started using AVRT, splitting off the "AV" or "The Beast" so to speak, it had no greater impact on MY personal integrity and who I am than the impact learning to drive in England on the other side of the road would have on MY personal integrity and who I am. AVRT is a simple Technique of Recognition of an extremely specific unwanted tendency.
So, the difference between Unaddicted ME and Addicted ME is totally independent of, yet an important motivator towards, my using AVRT to intentionally create the difference between Recovered ME and my Beast by using AVRT with the Big Plan. The difference between Recovered Me and my Beast is like the difference between Me the human being and a rat trying to break through the top of its cage that is being slowly immersed in water (a futile single minded grasping for air (booze))
Originally Posted by
JeffreyAK I find it easier to accept the view that is consistent with science, that addiction changes your brain and can indeed change your character and even morals, but there is a core you that returns when you abstain for a significant period of time, and has a lot of 'splaining to do to significant others, employers, etc.
That "significant period of time" can be any time when alcohol free. In AVRT "a lot of 'splaining'" can be packaged very compactly into pledging the Big Plan "to significant others, employers, etc." In AVRT, that is considered the best approach to regaining trust. It might be interesting to see a study about the differences in reports of personal morality for a cohort of addicts, first reporting between bouts of drinking and then reporting after a "significant period of time" in recoveryism for some, and "a significant period of time" for others who used AVRT. Those changes, whatever they are, in people's morality consistent with science would be interesting.
Originally Posted by
JeffreyAK This change is caused by the alcohol itself, not any fundamental moral defects, and to varying degrees it happens to billions of people.
Whatever that "change" may be, I believe, when there is no alcohol in an addicted person's bloodstream, he/she has a perfectly competent will in regards to making plans for the future use of alcohol. There seem to me to be two options. Either "Not right now, but who knows about later, I'll do everything to try to stay out of trouble or in recovery"; or, "NO, NEVER! It would be wrong for me to ever drink again. I will never drink again."
Originally Posted by
JeffreyAK I'm sorry for the harm I caused, but all I can do is do better,
It was not until I made my Big Plan - I will never drink again - before I was certain that "all I can do is better" regarding my addiction. Before that I had no plan regarding the future use of alcohol, and was quite aware that I could STILL do WORSE instead of BETTER. But, like you, NOW I know "all I can do is better" solely because I have a Big Plan. So, however you did it, I congratulate you, as well.
Originally Posted by
JeffreyAK and I'm certainly not an immoral person for having become an alcohol addict, no more than I would if I had been struck by temporary schizophrenia.
I suppose I could have gotten a grip on quitting sooner "if I had been struck" with chemical dependency, but I recall years of making many risky yet quite hedonistic decisions about when and where to drink some more as the problems caused by drinking slowly ratcheted up and up.
Originally Posted by
JeffreyAK Yes, I chose to drink, but I did not choose to become an addict,
Neither did I understand the Structural Model of Addiction, and how persistently "healthy" my Addictive Voice was in getting its booze. Yes, IT is completely focused on ITs own survival conning ME with getting more deep pleasure. Alas (says IT), or thank heavens(says ME), alcohol is unneeded for MY survival. I think when an addicted person learns what AVRT truly is, it becomes even more difficult to choose to remain addicted.
Originally Posted by
JeffreyAK and Trimpey's notion that it was a hedonistic pursuit of pleasure is laughable.
I have yet to find someone who can come up with an occasion when he/she drank with the intent of NOT experiencing the effect of alcohol crossing over the blood/brain barrier in his/her head. When that crossing takes place, organically, it's pretty much the same in everybody. AHHHhhhh, yesSSS! (ten minutes later) mmMMMMMMmmmm! HHHHhhhhhhaaaaaaexhalation with that wonderful organic solvent familiar stinging feeling going down and breathing out. That's Deep Pleasure! "Hey Bill? Pour one for everyone, on me! Game of pool?" or "I love these Foster Lager giant cans. Ahhh, those d**n Packers better win today!" or "Wow, it was a rough day. Honey, pour the martinis. (half hour later) Ahhhh Make another batch Honey" or ad infinitum...
Originally Posted by
JeffreyAK But, if others wish to carry a cross around and feel defective, they can do that.
Bending my morals to keep experiencing that Deep Pleasure was as "defective" as I got. I never accepted Recoveryism, the disease model, or that I became anything other than ambivalent about my drinking as "that other person". I will acknowledge that the ambivalence I experienced was very frustrating and exposed to myself (and some others who knew the truth) the extent I would go with full blown hedonism.
But once I switched 180 degrees from allegiance to the habit to I'm going to kill that habit, I knew I was back to behaving like myself - all the time.
This also meant (and is unrelated to the alcohol free "other self" I've been discussing) I was no longer temporarily absent from the universe while drunk with my corpus a menace to society.
Originally Posted by
JeffreyAK I'm too busy being a productive citizen, as I was before I became an addict but now with a much wiser and integrated worldview.
Since you haven't had a drop of alcohol for years, and you say "all I can do is better", I'm guessing you have ended your recovery as well. Again, congratulations on getting on with life.
------
Three Rational Recovery definitions (from another thread two years ago.) I find it amazing how my holding to these three distinct definitions has clarified for me over many years what would otherwise have been a murky ill defined understanding of what's going on with excessive alcohol and drug use.
Originally Posted by
GerandTwine In "Rational Recovery The New Cure for Substance Addiction" by Jack Trimpey,
"Illusion 3- The state of addiction may be objectively determined or shown. This very serious error is made when chemical dependence is confused with substance abuse and substance addiction." p. 58
These three terms are NOT interchangeable. Here are the relevant parts of three definitions from the RR Dictionary in the back of the book:
Addiction. 1. Addiction is chemical dependence that exists against one's own better judgement and persists in spite of efforts to control or eliminate the use of the substance. Logically, since addiction is known only to the individual, it may not be "diagnosed" except by asking the individual. 2. Addicted people are not out of control in the usual sense of the word, but have reversals of intent that lead back to drinking or drugging. 3. Addiction exists only in a state of ambivalence, in which one strongly wants to continue drinking alcohol or using other drugs, but also wants to quit or at least reduce the painful consequences. With AVRT, recovery from addiction is a simple, mercifully brief undertaking. (See chemical dependence and substance abuse.)
Chemical dependence. 2. Chemical dependence (especially upon drugs and alcohol) is an individual liberty with known health risks and known personal disadvantages including regrettable behavior, social ostracism, relationship problems, divorce, unemployment, and imprisonment. Regardless of the content of prohibition laws and the best efforts of law enforcement and others who oppose chemical dependence, using alcohol and drugs for pleasure is a personal liberty that cannot realistically be controlled by others. (see substance abuse.)
Substance abuse. 2. Someone else's opinion about an individual's use of certain substances, as in, "Substance abuse does not presume addiction."
When I came to understand Addictive Voice Recognition Technique, these definitions were essential to my getting a good foundation for how I thought to myself and talked to others about AVRT.