Originally Posted by
AlericB 
It also seems like common sense. How can you say now that you will never drink/use then? And how can you talk about this without appearing to be veering off into the mystical?
The Beast has no innate understanding of time, since it is only concerned with its present survival needs, and the immediate future. The Beast is essentially timeless, in the same way that animals in the jungle don't plan for their retirement. Their main concern is to eat and not get eaten long enough to reproduce.
Unlike those jungle creatures, however, the Beast has access to your thoughts, and will use the idea that "then" is different from "now" to try and undermine your confidence. Recall that undermining confidence to abstain is one of the prime functions of its Addictive Voice.
The Beast will say "sure, you can say that you'll never drink again NOW, but just wait, I will get you THEN." If we realize that "I will never drink again" is really the same thing as "I will never drink in the present moment," however, then we can meet the Beast on its own turf, and expose its ploy.
This was covered previously. See the following post:
See also pages 138-141 in
RR: TNC
Originally Posted by
AlericB I feel I'm letting down my recent congratulations from GT now and being the eternal student but I must still be honest and and say that I still struggle with the concept of never when applied to drinking.
No separation here, Aleric.
Your Beast struggles with the concept of never drinking again, since this goes against its raison d'ętre. It was born of drink, and lives to drink.
Originally Posted by
AlericB It does not come naturally like it did with smoking and I would not be surprised if this was not the number one stumbling block for people who are introduced to AVRT. Would not we all remove the Option of drinking/using again from the table if only we know how to do it?
That's the whole idea behind AVRT -- to live comfortably with residual addictive desire by disassociating from it, and by seeing it as an entity other than self. Who is the stumbling block really for? For you, or your Beast?
The problem, to the extent that it exists, is in the
lack of separation, which is what AVRT is about. See "Stealthy Beast Strategies and How to Combat Them" on pages 180-181 of
RR: TNC.
The Big Plan alone is technically sufficient for solving the drink problem. One could easily say "I want to drink, but I never will" for example, and indeed, many do recover this way, but it isn't AVRT.
Originally Posted by
AlericB So I wondered if we can stay on this topic a bit longer and and maybe say how we arrived at the 'certainty principle' ourselves. It would certainly help me and perhaps others to feel able to make an informed choice about whether and how to accept the solution.
The answer lies in the definition of the Addictive Voice itself, which, once again, is the 'bark' of the Beast. The bark is not the dog, and the AV is not the Beast. It is the Beast talking TO you.
AV ≠ Beast
Bark → Dog = AV → Beast
Unlike in some other paradigms, in AVRT, the AV, and not the Beast, is the cause of your addiction. Remember also, that without a Big Plan, there is no AVRT, because the Addictive Voice is also simply
any thinking or feeling that contradicts your Big Plan in any way, shape, or form.
Any 'uncertainty' is, by definition, the Addictive Voice of the Beast in your mind's eye, supporting the possibility of some more drinking.
Originally Posted by
AlericB The idea that it will always be 'now' is very encouraging, thanks. We may need to bring ourselves back to the present moment at times, such as when we are carried away by cravings or obsessive thoughts about drinking. But when we are back in the 'now', just like when we stay in possession of the personal pronoun 'I' as AVRT teaches, we get our proper perspective back and can make more informed choices.
No separation here, Aleric. Who is carried away by 'cravings' and 'obsessive thoughts' about drinking. You, or your Beast? The Beast lives to drink -- IT is 'obsessed' with the next drink, and with time since the last drink. The only schedule it cares about is a drinking schedule.
Part of AVRT is matching the Beast's tactic, and AVRT is therefore patterned after the Addictive Voice itself.
Originally Posted by
AlericB It's interesting that you introduce the word 'irrational' into the discussion. Perhaps there is a need to acknowledge that a Big Plan is ultimately irrational in its use of the word 'never' and that this is necessary for it to be able to counter the equally intransigent 'always' of the Beast.
The Big Plan is a chosen irrationality, arrived at largely through intuition. Any further disputation of the Addictive Voice is regarded as negotiation on the terms of surrender. Even to remind oneself of past trauma as a (statistically) likely outcome of further self-intoxication is a disputation.
Remember that the Beast of AVRT is
a rational entity, insofar as it is acting to ensure its own survival, and that the I/It split is not between rational and irrational, but between higher/moral reasoning and lower base drives. By resorting to these tactics, the Beast is finally matched.
Originally Posted by
AlericB The only problem I was having was with the idea that a Big Plan somehow makes it impossible for you ever to drink again, that you can't undo or get out of it even if you try.
That's the whole idea, though. Set your confidence level for lifetime abstinence arbitrarily at 100%, and recognize all self-doubt as the Addictive Voice itself. It is just the Beast barking at you -- no different than when it says "Drink. Now."