I lean toward the secular forum because I've come to expect conversations to be a little less driven by dogma, but it is clear that folks can become just as rigid about other methods as they can about AA. Anyway, I've said all I need to say here, there's no point in arguing, and I didn't expect to come across name-calling and insults, or to be told that my approach(es) to recovery will not lead to permanent or secured abstinence (though I haven't had a drink since 2013 and I have no desire or intention to). I realize those statements were not directed only towards me, and I do appreciate many of the thoughtful and thought-provoking comments in this thread. Unfortunately, some of the rigidness has turned me off a bit to learning more about AVRT. I don't need to be told I'm doomed to failure if I don't adhere to a specific philosophy. That's a big reason why I don't go to meetings. Anyway, I'll be in the mountains for over a week without internet, so I'm out... Enjoy!