Originally Posted by dblightstream

I don't really see why there has to be debates between secular and spiritual approaches at all. I have been in recovery about a decade now, and I really think the debates do nothing but start a recovery gang-war, and for no reason. I mean, i will tell everyone straight up I am here because I am a person in recovery from alcoholism: I am an individual, not a representative of either secular or spiritual groups; I am merely trying to recover and help others do the same, and I will do so through any tools that I have learned, whether they originated from a secular or spiritual group means nothing to me, what matters is if the concept works, helps keep me sober, and helps give me a better life than what I had when using. All the tools I use can be explained in secular or spiritual language, they are pragmatic concepts to use in my life and the language isn't the most important part of the concept, the substance of the concept is. just my thoughts, cuz i really find the debates worthless. Thanks MG!