Yes, moving the question to its own thread for open discussion is likely a good idea.
Bringing comparisons of AVRT and AA into the discussion of how drinking again manifests after previously quitting is something I'm not likely to be much involved in - speaking for myself. The two ways are not really comparable in a one-for-one manner, all else being equal, is my experience.
I will say this:
I claim to make personal use of both AA and AVRT. I claim to have great success taking what I need and desire, and thereafter being more out-of-the-box with applying both approaches.
I have learned by previous recent threads, my claimed experiences are much more the exception, and certainly not as common as I had once thought. Interestingly, I'm now much more less likely to detail the mechanics of my experiences. Live and learn, lol.
My informed opinion is neither AVRT or AA is suggesting the requirement for circular excuses to explain having a return to drinks after quitting. For me anyways, both approaches correctly allow for whomever to have drinks without the drinker needing to beat themselves up over it.
I also think that people have different opinions on what a return to drinking means generally - if it can even be fairly generalised for that matter.
So although I enjoy your posts fini, I'm not really in agreement with the initial premise that either AVRT or AA is getting it wrong. I don't hear either approach 'officially' stating what you are suggesting, even though I have heard people speak from their personal experiences about being reflective of what you too seem to be stating.
As is already known, I've not ever, not even once, returned to drinking after making use of AA and AVRT. Before such use, I was not successful in quitting, but simply took breaks between my "drunks" ie
I succeeded in failing at moderation, lol.
I really don't have any experience at "failing" with either AVRT or AA. This is the prime reason I posted what Jack is saying so as to hopefully bring it into the discussion that one can succeed at drinking while still not failing at not drinking.
A bit of a paradox, I suppose it could be said. Still, it looks very clear to me "drinking" and "not drinking" do not point-for-point have comparable "equal opposites" available for discussion. Same kind of thing for "sobriety" and "abstinence" too.
