Originally Posted by
Florence 
I'm all for optimism as long as the optimism isn't magical thinking, minimizing the consequences of addictive behavior on the family, or fear of leaving.
I'm also not of the thinking that its super easy to leave an alcoholic relationship, so stop yer complainin'. If dealing with any of this was cut and dry, we wouldn't be here trying to figure it out. I also want to emphasize that many of the relationships that we're talking about here have been abusive, which compounds the confusion and fear of leaving. There are some actual "victims" in this audience, and it isn't condescending to acknowledge that they've experienced real, devastating physical and emotional abuse.
I don't minimize any of it. I was in an emotionally abisive relationship for years and it may be hard to get your head around but big strong 'successful' men can allow themselves to go through that. I am angry at myself still for not seeing it and choosing to get out or forcing a change ten years sooner. I just can't get well if I pretend that I was stuck or could not choose to leave. I wasn't able toile the right choice until I was ready but it was always there and I was never a captive except to my OWN problems and issues.
My point is simply that the first step in anyone's recovery is to realize that they are powerless over things they don't control but not powerless when it comes to deciding how to deal with it.
Fear of leaving - whether that means fear of retribution or fear of financial hardship or fear of whatever... Is dangerous and delays our getting on to a better life.
I would also propose that on some, not all, cases of codependency the Codie falls into seeing it as all the other guys fault. I was annoyed when people told me to get to alanon and work on me - I'm not the one with the problem (oooooooooooops!).
Please don't mistake my saying that we chose this and are responsible for that choice as judgmental or mean spirited or less than sympathetic. To the contrary I think it would be utterly destructive to suggest to anyone that they are stuck in an awful situation.
I do her discouraged when I read blanket statements about how all alcoholics do this or that all the time and there is little hope. I just know too many people who disprove that every day.
I had a hard time deciding whether to commit to this or whether to run the other way but I'm glad I decided to give it my best shot. If I lose my wife to her addiction one day I won't feel like I wasted the time or regret the decision. I didn't commit to no matter what - I committed to giving it my best if she committed to recovery and made it clear that I won't live with an active addict or danger to the kids.
I know many more alcoholics than I do alanoners and the word alcoholic is so often spat out as an epithet here when it describes our loved ones as well as several of our members.
Anyway - I don't think they have a shot unless they are working a program and I don't think we can make them well but we can create an environment that is conducive to recovery or one that is conducive to failure based on what we do. I cringe when I imagine being the alcoholic in some of these crises - events that were awful for everyone were awful for them and they get to carry the guilt and humiliation too... Choosing to stay or go is a choice we make. Going has consequences and uncertainty, staying has them too. One responsibility we have when we make that choice is to accept that we share in the responsibility for the consequences... That's all.
What would be worse than to really have no choices?