Originally Posted by
MadeOfGlass 
I wonder if your husband Liz, has ever been anything different with you than who he is now. It seems that the two of you never shared what you are looking for in the history of your relationship, so this new and deeper connection, and intimacy, would be forging new territory.
Another problem is that I don't see that you are sure yourself what you are looking for, only that you want him to engage more. It's like you want growth for yourself, which involves your marriage too, but that he never signed up for that course, and is now clueless.
It's a good thing to want growth for yourself. To expand what intimacy can mean in life. To expand our thoughts to understand more of what life is and means, and what our relationships can do to reach their potential.
His approach to life is a simple one, and he appears clueless as to why you want the status quo to change.
Except for him quitting drinking, what is it that you want? You don't seem to have a clear cut understanding of what you want from him, or even yourself. That's ok, because I think you are on a discovery path.
Someone else pointed out that your husband has his own side to the story, which of course he does. From his pov, you are not going on trips with him, going alone on other trips, and withholding sex, which is considered its own form of manipulation. You're shaking things up with these type of things, but why you are pushing the limits here I am confused on. I read your posts and threads and I know you want MORE, but what kind of more?
I agree with your husband on only one thing in this debate...something he doesn't seem to have put into words yet...if you are on a path of self-discovery, that's great, but you need to separate that individual awakening from him unless you have a clear understanding of what you want from him, and how your path of self-discovery suddenly means that he has to change too.
I tried to articulate what I am feeling about your posts over the last few months but I am not to the point where I can say it succinctly, it is a vague feeling I have.
Florence said what I said essentially, but more eloquently. He has shown you who he is. Now you want him to be someone different, when he has been who he is all along.
I can see part of what you want, tell me if I am right or not. You want something you have never had before, a much deeper connection, communication, and emotional intimacy. I don't think you can get there with two people giving each other lists of what they want different because I think that connections are formed and grow with interaction--talking to each other, not AT each other.
How does a relationship grow when one partner wants to return to the old status quo and the other partner wants to forge into new territory? Can it even be done?
Yes, he was different when we first got married. He was supportive, he was attending church and leading Bible studies in our home, he was more willing to find the positive in things, he wasn't as depressed or anxious, etc. I think it's been a slow progressive downward spiral and I was somewhat in denial for many years because he was so up and down. We spent time with friends and did things. He has no interest in doing anything and always turns down my invitations to events with friends. He has made mention to the fact that he hates humanity and that he wants to live in the middle of nowhere where no human can contact him ever again.
As to what I want, here is the letter that I shared with both AH and the therapist yesterday, maybe this will answer some questions:
The partial list of what I want from a husband and/or my marriage:
I would love to be married to someone who is willing to take the steps needed to become healthy emotionally, mentally, and spiritually. I am a patient person but feel I’ve been thrown the crumbs from the cookie on the table. Lots of empty promises, filled in with convenient lies, some blame shifting and manipulating thrown in, mixed in with a few affirming words and apologies.
Trust: trusting that the words that come out of his mouth will be backed up by actions. That the promises made to me won’t be broken as if they were no big deal and inconsequential, which throws me into a cycle of distrust again. Also, trusting that he will show good judgement when acting upon his promises. I want to know that the words he speaks are truth, but if there are no actions backing up those words than the words become empty promises and I feel used and taken advantage of and feel that I’ve been made a fool of, over and over again. This includes accountability; if he can’t be accountable to me than he can find someone in AA or a therapist to confide in who can walk him through a recovery process, if that is something he chooses.
Loyalty: Meaning that when I open my heart and soul to you, that you will take my feelings and experiences and treat them with respect. That you will not use them against me just because things aren’t going your way. My experiences and feelings are MINE, they are not there to be exploited and manipulated to shame me, guilt me, or prove that you are better than. You should also expect this from me, and should feel comfortable sharing this with me, although I understand why we don’t talk about this stuff right now.
Maturity: Meaning that you are 45 years old, and a father and husband. You have a son who wants to look up to you and a wife who wants to honor you. Maturity means being a positive male role model in your family and having integrity in the decisions you make. Interpreting the law or disregarding it to fit your personality and whims tells your family that it’s OK to shelve your values, saying it’s OK to break laws, they were meant to be broken despite the possible consequences.
I want to be in a relationship where I feel safe, physically, emotionally, financially, and mentally. I want to feel protected and sheltered from the world and I want a husband who wants to be those things for me. I want to know and trust that the decisions he is making are the right decisions to protect his family.
If we are going to address anything in counseling, I believe the alcohol use needs to be addressed and then we need to address the trust issues and how you are going to try to regain my trust. What actions are there going to be?
That was most of it, I ended it by saying that I am working on my own issues in individual therapy and that I believe that God's plan is perfect for us even though things aren't going as we planned.
When the therapist asked him what he thought of the letter, AH just said, "Yeah, I know all these things. I'm tired of being responsible." And, he carried on from there about his issues with responsibility among other things.