I came across this discussion yesterday and because I’m not in the midst of it, might perceive it differently. But I’m a little concerned at what I read from R&A and aeo - and from Jakk as well - so wanted to offer this viewpoint.
I’m an intellectual feeling person, certainly not nearly as cerebral as some of y’all but without a doubt way more “sensitive” (self-conscious) than many. I read this discussion with a good deal of empathy for Jakk, knowing he would be challenged, if only for the fundamental lack of understanding of what constituted doubt in the context of AVRT.
(Jakk, if you’re still reading, don’t construe any of the following to be trying to teach you anything you don’t already know. It’s not an uncommon style in this discussion, making the same point again to ensure context.)
Originally Posted by
ReadyAndAble 
Language is important. But sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar.
A cigar IS a cigar. In the case of AVRT, it’s exactly that simple. Any thought that supports the idea of drinking again is attributed to the AV, speaking for the addiction. We recognize the AV by watching our language. Who is speaking here? The person I consider to be authentically me or the part of me that is my addiction? Language is important.
I appreciate that AVRT is so fundamentally simple. It does not allow wiggle room for rationalization or hand-wringing, it recognizes that addiction just is (however it came to be so) and that abstinence can be just as simple.
Originally Posted by
aeo1313 I guess I don't even try to think any of this stuff out. I just don't drink. Any voice that tells me I can drink I dismiss as not my true self. I am making good choices as to how I live my life. I am nicer. I just don't drink or use...I guess I'm doing the AVRT for Dummies?
I think you are doing AVRT for Smarties. (Not those SMART folks, though I’m sure they wouldn’t object!) You get it, you got it, you’re moving right along. What could be more rational?
Originally Posted by
ReadyAndAble You know, while I find AVRT incredibly useful, I am beginning to question whether I should participate in the more granular discussions of it, such as those on the multi-part Secular Connections AVRT thread. Some elements feel increasingly rigid to me, almost like a doctrine, as if the ultimate goal was to master a certain philosophy. I view it as a means to an end, nothing more. My only goal was to escape addiction and cement my abstinence. Mission accomplished, ya know?
Part of what drew me to AVRT in the first place was a reluctance or inability to accept dogma. At the same time, I do not want to muddy the waters for others, because the clarity I saw in AVRT's core principles was also one of the draws. I've been thinking about one Robby's other posts today, about being authentic to himself. That hit home for me.
AVRT for Dummies sounds about right for me.
ReadyAndAble, I think that you bring value to these discussions because you have an eye out for the people behind the posts. This is not to say that others don’t (why else would any of you successes be here conversing with those of us who wash up on shore?), but you have a knack for recognizing that the beast isn’t the only one who can be wounded by the rapier thrust of logic and bulls***t detection that rules here. I can’t speak for Jakk, but I know that I am still working on dissociating “me” from “it,” and discerning which one of us is hurt (or irritated) sometimes is helped along with a variety of tools ranging from empathetic suggestion all the way through to the sledgehammer.
Not telling you or anyone else what to do, nor even suggesting. Just wanted to say that AVRT seems to have plenty of room for all manner of approaches.
Like BacktoSquareOne said already…
Originally Posted by
BackToSquareOne It's like going on a diet, some just cut back on calories and increase their exercise. Others weigh their food on those little scales, count calories, keep meticulous food intake records and training journals, etc.etc.
But the basic truth remains
Reduce net calories = weight lost.
Recognize that any thought that supports drinking = addictive voice. The rational person can call that out for what it is.