Originally Posted by
Dalek 
In fact, the statement "I have no desire to use" is actually Addictive Voice, because it suggests that there is no Beast, or that the absence of desire makes abstinence more likely. That, of course, necessarily implies that the presence of desire makes abstinence less likely, thereby suggesting the possible the future use of the substance, which, by definition, is AV.
AVRT identifies even wanting the desire to be removed as AV, because it suggests self-doubt about abstinence in the presence of desire. Those who have been exposed to other addiction treatment programs usually find this surprising, but since addictive desire (the Beast) can return at any time, it is actually useful not to depend on it "going away", and with AVRT, we assume that the Beast never really dies or goes away.
Yeah, this is all excellent AVRT. Thanks, Dalek.
Originally Posted by Saskia
Dalek (and yes, I still remember the Daleks from Dr Who) I'm not so sure I agree with that statement. I don't believe that the absence of desire makes abstinence more likely" or the converse. I believe that some of us have had experiences that enable us to put cravings in their appropriate perspective. Awareness that things can still change is a necessary ingredient
It's not so much moment to moment the absence of (addictive) desire which is AV, its a want for the absence of (addictive) desire to be a preferred state, or otherwise, the complete permanent removal of (addictive) desire is AV.
The Beast is a unhealthy adaption of desire, an addictive desire to alcohol, and since natural desire is sourced from our animal mid-brain, it really can't be removed, and there exists no practical "off button."
As we use AVRT to recognise each manifestation of AV, the Beast (addictive desire) weakens its use of AV, and this allows us to become stronger in our resolve to live in abstinence. As we continue, eventually our AV becomes a routine expected experience, we become experts in recognition of AV in ourselves, and others, and what's there not to love, lol.
So yeah, simply not having addictive desire in any present moment is not itself AV, but certainly a desire to have no addictive desire is AV.