Originally Posted by
Dalek 
I didn't mean you in particular, Robby. I was drawing on your "drinking poison is not pleasure" remark to make a general point. Obviously, to the Beast, alcohol is simply not poison, regardless of what anyone says, so it will see through all such ploys. It isn't even a minor threat to the Beast, and won't slow it down one bit. This is why all those warnings on cigarette packs don't stop any nicotine fiend from opening the pack and lighting up.
Hmmm. Well, I'm not all that different, am I? <GRIN>
I agree, and always have, alcohol is nothing but pure pleasure to the Beast. The Beast has no functional way to understand or appreciate alcohol as a poison. For me, my experience and understanding, it dosen't 'see' through what ever ploys. The Beast cannot be tricked or deceived. It simply cannot grasp any kind of mental understanding, and so is not smart enough to be fooled by something smarter. It really is amazingly stupid. The Beast is all about alcoholic pleasure. Period.
I am simply saying, my
subjective understanding that alcohol is a poison has no downside for my sustained abstinence. Nada. None. Zilch. Not even for a moment. Okay?
Originally Posted by Dalek
I suspect from your remarks that you intuitively know this, but bear in mind that others without thirty years off the bottle may not. Trying to see alcohol as poison or something that "doesn't feel good" in order to deter or ward off the Beast is a very common rookie tactic. I would wager that most people have tried this trick at some point. Not realizing that the Beast will practically laugh that off, many are soon dumbfounded, wondering "why, oh why, did I drink again, if I know I will feel so bad the next day?"
(They may feel bad the next day, but the Beast feels damn good!)
I know what I know from my collective life experiences with alcoholic drunkeness, abstinence, and sobriety. My thirty years of living sans-alcohol started with one day, yeah?
Yeah, perhaps some persons have tried to fool their Beast with clever tricks, as you describe, but this would require a complete misunderstanding of the nature of their Beast. In that case, many other
highly more complex troubles are already in play, and for all the combined reasons, yes, a person would (could) very well return to drinking.
People who wonder why their bad experiences don't deter the Beast have a real need of learning to skillfully recognise their AV. Their AV is playing them emotioningly, and winning the game, because abstinence is not an emotional experience. Abstinence is a behaviour. Not to say people don't feel emotional about their abstinence, of course they do, but those emotions are created because of a state of pre-exisiting abstinence, which supports the real-time experience of those respective emotions, not the other way around.
Frothy appeals don't work.
Originally Posted by Dalek
Well, this is part of what AVRT is about, a know thy enemy sort of thing. AVRT is patterned after the addictive voice itself, and we match the Beast point for point. The Beast knows that alcohol feels good, so instead of denying what alcohol does, and saying "I won't drink because it won't feel good," which is an unprovable assertion that the Beast can exploit, we say "I won't drink even if it did feel good. I reject that one, single pleasure." By meeting the Beast on its own turf, in the trenches, instead of from an ivory tower, we call its bluff.
I completely agree. Truth weakens the Beast. Lies and deceptions, untruths, generalities and moralities, emotional energies -- these strengthen and excite the Beast to no end.
Interesting discussion. Thanks. Lotsa good stuff being worked through.
:ghug3