Old 10-04-2011, 11:19 AM
  # 488 (permalink)  
MickeyAnMeisce
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Moscow-Pullman Greater Metropolitan Area, WA
Posts: 107
Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
I've said this before in this thread, in response to your inquiries, but you seem persistent.
I could speculate all day about how I seem to you or how you seem to me, but that doesn't strike me as conducive to civil conversation. This a long thread and people are prone to not remembering the answer to every post in the thread. I therefore asked again to refresh others' memory. I have no ulterior motive.

Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
The disease concept is irrelevant to AVRT-based recovery, since AVRT is not based on medicine.
If the disease concept is irrelevant to AVRT, why does Rational Recovery devote any time to criticizing it?

Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
Unless the disease concept becomes part of your AV, ie, "oh, well, I have a chronic, incurable, progressive, relapsing brain disease over which I am powerless, so I may as well give up trying to quit and just drink, drink, drink," then you can just forget about it entirely. If it does become part of your AV, however, it will necessarily get caught in the cross-hairs of AVRT.
Again, that is an interpretation of the disease model and not the disease model itself; Rational Recovery appears to deliberately conflate the two in order to criticize 12-step programs as mindlessly ideological "recoveryism".

Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
In other words, you are saying the exact same thing, that the root cause of the problem is irrelevant to the solution. One need only be aware of the existence of a problem.
Except that cognitive-behavioral therapies do not completely deny that etiology is important or useful. You can treat the symptoms but that doesn't cure the underlying disease.

Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
However, the addicted person is certainly already aware of the existence of a problem by the time they even consider quitting. If that were not the case, they wouldn't be trying to quit.
However, the addiction is very often problematic before the "addicted person" is aware it is.

Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post
That said, AVRT ≠ CBT.
Cognitive-behavioral therapies are a large class of therapies, including RET/REBT, MET, DBT, etc.. Although their approaches may differ widely, their conceptual framework are all essentially the same. They all use the awareness of undesirable thoughts (i.e., anxiogenic cognitions) to modify self-destructive actions (i.e., maladpative behavior patterns). AVRT fits this framework in the sense that it teaches the practitioner to recognize anxiogenic cognitions (i.e., the Addictive Voice) and avoid engaging in a maladaptive behaviors (e.g., drinking/using).
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