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Old 03-26-2011, 01:25 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
Cyranoak
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
All in all I see where you are going with this poEven being generous, AA only hast...

...just a couple of things about a couple of parts of your post, though. First, based on what I have learned about alcoholism and alcoholics over the last 13 years, I believe an 11 percent success rate is fantastic. I've also seen this rate quoted at 5 percent. I think that's fantastic too. I've never found anything that can credibly claim a higher level of success. I admit it, I'm an AA and Alanon believer. I, frankly, could care f-ing less what the success rate is-- in my world it's 100 percent.

Secondly, I think your simile about Olympic Skiing is misplace and hyperbolic. I don't believe for a second the average human being can become an Olympic athlete through hard work and dedication. A small percentage of people have the genetic ability to go along with that hard work, support network, and dedication and they are the people who go to the Olympics.

However, The Twelve Steps aren't that hard, and will work for anybody who simply follows them. The key? Following them for the rest of your life. Let's say, however, that 5 percent is an accurate success rate. That means that this year AA could potentially help 338,761,787 people find sobriety based on the world's population.

Contrast that to the number of Olympic Athletes as a percentage-- it's such a small number it errors out my calculator. It is, literally, such a tiny number as to be almost insignificant.

Take care, take what you want, and leave the rest.

Cyranoak

Originally Posted by MCESaint View Post
Timely question, as AW - who just went through another "crisis" (DWI) - is back to seeking help through an outpatient recovery clinic - with upfront costs of $2500 to $3500 (and, I'm assuming the meter is ticking).

I know I'm new to this forum, but I'm not new to being the spouse of an AW.

If "alcoholism" is a disease, then is ROI an issue? I mean, if my child had a brain tumor, I'd pour every penny I had into her treatment. Not to mention, I could hold fundraisers, etc. It evokes charity from people. Not so alcoholism.

Because, while some pay lip-service to it being a "disease," many treat it as simply a matter of will power. And only willpower.

This is complicated by the fact that alcoholism is what I call a "mind f*ck disease." If you had cancer, you *know* you have cancer. But, it seems to me that "alcoholism" is more akin to schizophrenia - where your mind (unmedicated) thinks the abnormal is normal and real. And schizophrenics can be *forced* into treatment by the courts IF they are a danger to themselves or to others.

And, even then, once released, there's no guarantee a schizophrenic will remain on his/her medication.

Not so with alcoholics (well, other than through run-ins with the criminal justice system). We almost insist that *they* seek help for their own disease all on their own.

(Note: I recognize that schizophrenia is its own disease and I'm not equating the two. I'm simply trying to draw a parallel that, IMO, exists to some extent).

As for AA, I'm not sure it works for *every* alcoholic. I think it works for some; I think it works less well or not at all for others.

Even being generous, AA only has about an 11% success rate. Now, I'm sure that there are those who'll say: "but for those who commit, it has a 100% success rate."

Well, if I 100% commit to the USOC downhill ski program, I can become an Olympic skier. Is that a measure of success of the *program* or of *my* level of commitment?

I think it begs the question: is alcoholism a disease or a matter of willpower?

Personally, I'm for whatever treatment/program/plan that works. If it's AA, great. If it means alternatives to AA, then great too. And that may be heresy here (or may get me kicked off or flamed).

We're living in a time when we are learning more and more about the brain, chemistry, and genetics. I think it opens up new treatment methods and opportunities. And, as is usual, in the medical field, the "cutting edge" isn't cheap.

This isn't, I don't think, to say that the alcoholic can't be held *responsible* for his/her actions OR the effect it has on others.

If you're done with your A spouse or child - if your patience and finances have run dry (or reached a level that you are no longer comfortable), then you're done.

I've known parents who have schizophrenic children, some hang in there indefinitely, some have simply maxed out and say: "there is nothing more that we can do."

No judgment from me as to either.

As to those questions - when do YOU run out of patience?; when do YOU decide that you can no longer afford to fund treatment? - I think there is only ONE person who can answer that question: You.

In short, I don't think the answer has a LOGICAL answer. You can write down the "pluses" and "minuses" of spending money on treatment for the A in your life all day long. I'm not sure such a list really gets to any answer.

What I think does get to an answer is not logic, but heart. How much "emotional stress" will you incur if you do it? How much "emotional stress" will you incur if you don't do it?

And there's only ONE person who can answer that question: you.

But, hey, that and $3.25 will buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

I know where you're at - I'm in a similar place myself - and pray things turn out best *for you.*

Good Luck.
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