Originally Posted by
Eroica 
You know I've heard that argument so many times.. that isnt possible, thats crazy.. It was crazy at one time to suggest that slaves should be emancipated.
Look around the world. Just because people aren't sold at public auction on the docks doesn't mean slavery is gone. The world isn't a pretty place.
Originally Posted by
Eroica Someone said we should be using other countries as models. Do you think Sweden and other European countries keeps people in cages? Do you think other countries think our prison system is fair and humane? I thought we were more creative than that that we can explore possibilites that don't include keeping people in cells.
OK, look at Sweden. In a completely unscientific survey consisting of a Google search their prisons don't look remarkably different from modern American prisons. A little more drywall, perhaps, but basically a really boring place to sleep with a window so guards can keep an eye on the residents. They have TV in the cells, that's available at some American prisons, not others. I'm not terribly worried about the decor of the prison. Hell, my apartment has cinder block walls and nobody's complaining that I am treated inhumanely. Also I've never heard anyone say, "Man, prison was tough. They wouldn't let me paint the cell periwinkle. I just got drab, boring Indian White."
In Sweden for 2006 (according to a
report by the Swedish Prison and Probation Service) 66% of inmates with longer than a 2-month sentence were drug addicts. Prisoners are subject to random UA drug tests. On average a prisoner is required to provide a urine sample every 18 days. Sweden offers education, vocational training, and addiction treatment programs in prisons. And they believe the deprivation of liberty is the punishment, and other punishment in the prison is not appropriate. This is according to the Prison and Probation Service's own literature. The thing is many of those services are available to prisoners in the US (though it varies by state), but what is officially offered vs what the guards will allow you to do aren't always the same thing. Information about what actually happens in Swedish prisons is not readily available so it's hard to tell. On paper they look like they're doing a good job, with the main goal of trying to keep people from coming back. The
recidivism rate after one year is about 35% (according to the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention) versus about 65% in the US.
Just remember: Sweden requires military service!
No one suggested inmates should be maltreated. In fact I think we've got a consensus that they should be well cared for and treated humanely so you're preaching to the choir there.
Originally Posted by
Eroica Do you really think the majority of people in prison even need to be seaparated from society? Most are non-violent and dont need to be separated at all. Just a very few do. We dont need prisons for that.
OK, non-violent crimes can, and often are, dealt with through probation, community service, etc. In my state, as in many others, the prisons are overcrowded and alternatives to imprisoning people are readily accepted.
How do you propose to separate violent criminals from society without a prison system? Please explain what you mean there.
You ask a lot of rhetorical questions but you still haven't provided any solutions. Since I'm not as creative as you hoped, perhaps you could lay it out for me. What are these creative solutions that are better than what we have, still accomplish whatever goals you think a justice system should have, and separates violent offenders from society (apparently without imprisoning them)?
I'm not saying the system is perfect, in fact I think I've made it clear it needs much improvement in the treatment of prisoners. I even offered up some alternatives. But those solutions aren't acceptable to you, so what's better?