Interesting thread, glad it hasn't degenerated...yet. In truth, it's probably an irrelavent argument in semantics. AA/NA works for some, not so much for others. Nobody is forced to stay in an AA program (excluding court ordered, which is wrong in my opinion). One thing AA/NA lacks that your generally find in most cults is a charasmitic leader who members follow blindly. AA's founders are no longer with us (I'm not really sure about NA), but there has been a very deliberate effort NOT to have any kind of central leadership in either of these organizations. Just my thoughts.