Originally Posted by
Still Waters 
Ago, I have some issues with this:
If, in my experience, I had been dealing with someone sane I would totally agree with this statement. But when you're dealing with a non-recovering alcoholic this sentence just doesn't work.
For instance, the alcoholic who denies and denies they've been drinking while their tea cup reeks of wine (someones experience here lately) does NOT have a valid viewpoint. They have lies and denial.
In couples counseling I was basically told the same thing you're saying. So, I was forced to listen and agree with fiction.
Counseling won't work if lies are involved.
I hear and validate your point of view, and agree with the fact that your "reality" doesn't need to match or agree with an insane persons.
If "his" 'reality' is insanity, it's still his reality, does that make sense?
As in it's like arguing politics with your mother to coin a phrase, no one is going to change their mind, and everyone is just going to end up frustrated, It's like if Mom happens to think Walmart is the best thing to happen since sliced bread and I happen to think it's a blight on the landscape and evil and destroying America.
They are deeply different philosophies, but they are both valid viewpoints.
That's when it comes down to
who you choose to be involved in a relationship with. An insane person who lives in lala land, or somebody who is prepared to work on themselves, by themselves, for themselves.
They are both "realities" it's just one is attractive and the other makes you insane.
By no means was I condoning any set of behaviors by either party in this discussion, I was trying to bring an objective viewpoint.
Alcoholism causes a certain set of recognizable behaviors, living with an alcoholic mate (or parent) also causes a certain set of recognizable behaviors.
What I was bringing to the table was my experience from both viewpoints.
Your experience was with an insane person that lied. I have had that experience as well, and I agree with you and other posters here, that therapy with someone who is truly not willing to work on themselves and just lies to the therapist and puts their own "spin" on everything is a waste of time.
I have also had the experience of being dragged to therapy and couples counseling and after just a few visits being informed that the therapist we had was the wrong one, mainly because the therapy was supposed to "fix" me, since I was the the "broken" one, and when it turned out we both had work to do, it was time to get another therapist. It had been "predecided" that I was "the problem" and the therapy was just to get me to fall in line, and when it turned out there were two of us that both "had a part" and we both had work to do, the fallout wasn't pretty.
I have personally seen this dynamic over a dozen times with my own eyes with sponsees as well. It's a common enough occurrence in sobriety to have it's own set of humor around it.
So, for me, personally, I at this point in time, will only get involved with someone who has a proven track record of working on themself to begin with. Not "work on themself" to make me happy, or to "save the relationship" but because they are truly interested in being a better person and getting healthy for themselves.
Personally, I am working on myself right now, and it has nothing to do with whether I am in a relationship or not. I will not either work on myself for a relationship, nor will I ever ask someone else to "work on themselves" for a relationship. I do what I do for me, and rather then trying to change the person I am with, I will watch what they do and make a decision on whether to stay or go based on their actions. I won't stay with someone based on their potential or who they could be, I try to make my decisions based on who they are, not on who I want them to be.
It's like "acceptance", I don't have to like or condone what the other person is or is not doing, but I need to accept it for what it is, and not what I think it is, what I think it should be, what I want it to be, but for what it actually is, right here, and right now, then I can make an informed decision on how to deal with it.
Is this what I really want for my life?
Work on yourself and time will tell.
An amazing example of exactly what that looks like is ToughChoice's journey for the last 6-8 months, you want to see what recovery looks like, read her threads and posts, there is a recovery from A-Z, if it were military they would teach her Journey at West Point. It, and her self awareness now is that good.