Shellslove

Hi Tish,
I'm curious - how long were you on the subutex last time, and how long were you abusing your DOC? When you say that you are 'addicted' to the subutex - do you mean you're concerned about the physical dependence and w/d when you're not taking it? Or are you abusing the medication? Have you been taking it as rx'ed?

As I think you know, I am taking subutex as well...currently tapering, but definitely having some issues with that. I honestly feel w/d symtpoms, even when tapering a small amount off a relatively high dose. I've heard theories that it's 'all in my head' - and I admit, alot of it could be - but any way you put it - I'm having physical manifestations of w/d pain - and it stinks. However, Subutex has been very helpful for me, allowing me to stay far away from my DOC -- unfortunately I have abused the medication in the past. When i say abuse, I mean over use --- and no, it doesn't make me high or honestly make me physically feel any better to take more --- this is a mental thing. I'm now taking it as rx'ed, but the subutex def has played on my abusive/addict tendencies. I want to take more when I'm feeling 5hitty - I know that it won't help the symptoms, but this is what my addict mind has been trained to do. As I work a program of recovery, this behavior has ceased, but the thought is still there. So I understand what you mean when you say you are 'addicted' to this medication.

Have you talked to the doctor about your thoughts on the subject? I think it is a tricky thing - the medication can be very helpful, but it can also prolong addictive behaviors - which it is designed to break. You say you went back on it to get more 'stable time' under your belt. I won't go into my opinion on whether taking opiate replacement meds is being 'clean or stable' - but how do you feel about it? I'm not saying you have to talk about it here, but think about it -- how does that thought effect your actions and your desire to be free from the subutex? IMO - for me personally that is - being on the subutex right now, is better than taking a handful of pills. Alot of people wouldn't agree with this, but it's what's right for me at this point. My intention and goal is to be free of all opiate medications and mind altering substances, but subutex is part of my road to a complete recovery. I think it's a mind over matter issue. I have to be honest though, I've abused subutex before and I am an addict - so it stands to reason if I'm not careful, it could happen again. As someone put it in another post, it's sort of like 'harm reduction' for me - the lesser of 2 evils in some ways.

As far as your back pain - have you tried non-opiate medications like Lyrica or Neurontin which have a good reputation of helping w/nerve related pain? Have you tried alternative non-medicinal treatment like massage, yoga, meditation, strengthening exercise? It becomes a problem when we rely on opiate medication for our pain b/c though not inherently bad, tolerance is going to inevitably rise, leading to the need for higher dosages. Having addictive tendencies is going to naturally lead to a problem w/opiate therapy, period. As Emmer mentioned, once you're habituated to opiates, your tolerance to natural pain is going to be dramtically lowered - so it will take time to be able to handle even daily aches and pains w/o medication. As far as subutex goes, I don't believe there is any clinical proof to show that it's any good for chronic pain - however, as bval said, it's not as destructive as other opiates. Whether you want to continue taking it as pain therapy, as opposed to opiate w/d maintenance is obviously up to you and your doctor.

If I recall correctly, you went c/t off a higher dose of subutex, is that correct? (I'm sorry if that's not accurate - please correct me) If this is the case, that may have sabotaged your plan. The medication is designed to be gradually tapered, leading to a less harsh and painful w/d. Yes, you will still feel pain when you come off the medication...but if you're using it for long-term purposes, the idea is to get your mind on track w/recovery. Once you have a stable platform to work with, the w/d shouldn't be as difficult...see what I mean? The only way to lessen w/d is to taper down slowly. if you come off the subutex from the highest dose, it's bound to be as bad as w/d off your DOC (if not worse than, since the sub is long-acting.) Maybe trying another round of sub isn't a bad idea? If you make a solid plan w/your doctor, scheduling a taper w/a specific amount of time between each drop in dosage, and working your recovery whilst doing so - you might have more success this time? Of course, that is all up to you...but you should definitely talk to your doctor about it!