Originally Posted by ismchanger
Not trying to flame you or anything, but I get the distinct impression you are willing to go to any lengths...EXCEPT deal with your God issue. What is that about?
It's about choice. Plain and simple.
In my experience, as an alcoholic who has seen far too many miracles occur just in my OWN life, much less in the lives of others, it is impossible to explain away the incredible and miraculous changes that are brought about by the Program of AA. Words alone do NOT have this much power, nor do actions alone. I cannot understand how, if you really have been around this Program for a while, you can remain in defiance of God's love for you. I am guilty of defiance in many matters, both secular and faithful, and I have paid the price multifold. Have you such an amazing program that it is wholly self-sustaining?
What was once believed sincerely to be miracles can now be explained by science. PERHAPS your miracles are in that category?
And words may not have that power, but, behaviors do. Again, we make choices each and every day. When we choose to do the next right thing, time after time, we get over our obsession with our DOC.
And a person who is an atheist, or an agnostic, or Buddist, or follows Confucianism or Wiccan....et al....doesn't believe in G*D. Therefore, to speak of G*D's love is meaningless to that person.
And that is the jist of SECULAR recovery. It's about the naturalist, humanistic world of recovery. Non-deist of any kind. As much as I personally respect people of faith other than mine, I wouldn't try to press *MY* version of G*D or G*D's love on another. That's respect only.
Again I am not trying to flame you personally, but I am replying to this because I believe that separatist movements like "secular recovery" are doing an injustice to the vast majority of those who need sobriety. If you cannot accept the existence of God or a "higher power" as suggested in the 12 steps of AA then you really are missing the point of spiritual growth and the gifts/blessings that are derived therefrom.
Please understand, there are many boards on SR (and other places), devoted to a 12 step, theist approach to recovery.
This place is NOT one of them.
You have your right to your views; others have theirs. And we have a nice group here trying to get well. Pushing G*D onto a member of SC is not acceptable, although we do appreciate your viewpoint.
Essentially you are saying "See, I got done on my own power..." and "what does God have that I can't find on my own?" The answer is a LASTING and TRUE peace or serenity. We are not inherently good! And we are not inherently strong! These tenets are what secularism is built on and stand in direct opposition to the spiritual necesseties of the Program! You may be sober for many years based on your cork-in-the-bottle, no-God-needed-here approach, but real growth will be stunted or misdirected without a spiritual component in your life.
The doctrine you are speaking about -- being inherently bad and weak -- is a Christian based doctrine. People on these boards are probably not Christian. They MAY be Christian or other religions. But, for their own reasons, these members have chosen to work a secular, humanistic program. It is their right.
We expect other members to respect that right.
Even if you don't agree.
Anyway, enough of my unsolicited sponsorship. I do wish you well and I wish you serenity, but I especially wish you God's blessings. And I would say all the above to anyone whom I sponsor! I hope you can accept it in that light.
Thank you for sharing your opiniions.
Please read some of the other threads on this forum to get the idea of secular recovery. It is specifically non-theist. That's WHY it exists here.
Shalom!
(Yes, I'm Jewish; have a firm belief in G*D, but, respect other's right to recovery in whatever form they need. Each of us deserves to live substance free.)