Originally Posted by AutumnWe can poke holes in that statement all day long. But I think you know it isn't true. Are you meaning to say that the human experience is pretty much similar amongst individuals? I agree with that.
Yes, that is what I was attempting to say.
Originally Posted by Five
Thanks for this 2 Day. This is what I strive for. Exactly that. To heal me. I find the secular approach good for this. And there was a thirst for a secular view on things - hence the amnosity at times. But I think the balls has started now, and SoS, SMART, and the 'go it alones' will continue to flourish.
I agree Five. It seems the timing is right for the door to finally open to new ideas and possibilities. People were not very receptive to the idea in the past. It was taking quite a stance to choose an nontraditional belief in days gone by. There are enough people that are demanding another option and we are seeing doors open as a result.
Originally Posted by AutumnNow say someone who believes in a HP (supernatural deity) has a similar wreck across the street. Is that person more or less inclined to think in terms of "accident"? And is that person more or less inclined to think "Thank goodness my HP was watching out for me" rather than "Thanks to the strong frame, extra reinforcements and breakaway bumper, I'm alive"?
I would say both. I would believe that divine intervention would have played a big part and that intelligent people were brought to the notion of designing safer cars. I may have an issue as to why he didn't let me stay home that day and have me avoid the whole situation in the first place. Something I might take up with the big guy later, if that were the case. Perhaps a perfectly timed wrong number throwing off the entire cosmic event would be more in order.
Originally Posted by Autumn
It's really great to see you expanding your horizons Muse. For REAL.
Thanks for you concern Autumn. I hate thinking that I was being a hard ass in my beliefs, but that was then. Let me try to explain how I expanded my horizons. Coming into AA they have a very strict set of doctrine as you all well know. I believe it is there for a reason and serves a good purpose. I can understand why they function as they do.
Early in sobriety we need guidance and structure. Although the program may be difficult at times to accept some of the more challenging concepts or actions of others, they are attempting to not vary from the program. The steps are applied the same for all alcoholics even though we may be individuals. I full understand the concept of how and why. We cant start breaking up the program in that sense because then, the foundation of the program becomes weakened.
Although I can be hard headed at times, or somewhat of a rebel, I stuck with the plan because I know I needed the structure to get sober. Maybe some others may not be so receptive in becoming pliable, or told what to do. That is where the conflict begins with the member and the program. That is also where the choice comes in. Work the program, or seek another.
After being in the program for over 2 years now, I feel I have a strong sober foundation. I can afford to vary my beliefs now where I felt I couldn't before. I couldn't for my own behalf, and well being. Today, after hearing so many other people speak out with different views, other than AA's way, it would be insensitive, or even ignorant of me to not listen to what it was they were saying. I finally figured out that my way is not the only way. I lightened up and opened my mind to other beliefs. It takes time to come to a certain acceptance.
We are conditioned to believe a certain way, doctrine. Much like your Grandmother. Her place in history, her environment had brought her to a firm Catholic belief. There comes a time where we may choose to break away from a firm belief system, which many have chosen to do. Religion is a prime example of that. When we reach a time of wanting more, thirsting for a new way, or have grown dissatisfied with what we have been fed, we search for other means. Or more simply, for myself, I just decided to broaden what I had been taught to include others beliefs as well as my own. I feel comfort with where I am. We all are here seeking the same path. We need to make room for one another on this sober highway. Open up the car pool lane and journey together.
