Relationship with your Dad?

[51anna]

What kind of a relationship do you have with your Dad?

I think, for women, the more difficult relationship is often with our Mothers. But, it's Father's Day and I've just spent a week with my Dad, so I've been thinking about this a lot.

Of course, relationships are always changing. For a long time, I resented my father because he allowed my mother to abuse me. When I was older I understood that because he was 'addicted' to my mother, he had no choice. He couldn't stand up to her, it was not in him. But, I still resented him. I think, since I've been in recovery, the resentment has faded and I accept that he did the best he could.

But, what about the phone calls where he talks for five minutes about what he's doing and then says 'good-bye'. Sometimes he asks 'How are you?', but often not and he rarely asks about my children. He is part of a very sick relationship between him, my brother and my brother's son (my nephew). It consumes him and eats him up and he won't let it go. It takes so much of him, I'm not sure there's much left of him.

In the past year or so, I've asked him to travel here (4-5 hrs by plane) three times - once for a Graduation and twice for Weddings. He's come and I've been very grateful because it means a lot of my children and to me. But, I believe the reason he came is for my mother (who died a few yrs ago). He was here in her place, rather than here for himself and his relationships with his grandchildren and me.

I guess I'm going nowhere with this except to say that relationships are what they are. I've learned to keep the wishful thinking out of the mix and to embrace the emotions I feel.

[CarolD]

My Dad was a non drinker...an angry... judgemental.. perfectionist.
He detested affection.. was quick with a belt to the rear for discipline

His profession, an efficiency expert!!..

I was so damn glad to leave home at 17

7 years later.. He and my ex tricked me into signing permanet custody over to him of my 3 children.
I never forgave him.

I cried when he died ...sad that he never felt loved.

[cwohio]

my mother was the alcoholic, father, hmm, maybe codependent. he is pretty emotionally unavailable. i speak to him maybe 3 times a year by phone. he usually isn't the one to make the phone call. not affectionate, therefore i grew up not knowing how to deal with feelings and expressing affection. i'm just now getting into my childhood issues and i know they play into why the 2 long relationships (one marriage) were with addicts. when i do talk to him it's very mundane conversation - he just doesn't know how to express feelings. he will never be the nurturing father we all dream of - but i am coming to terms with that.

[TheGirlInside]

OH, Carol...my mouth is still agape!! How awful that must have been for you.

Just thinking, I really like that song..."Fathers, be good to your daughters
'cause daughters will love like you do,
they turn into lovers, who turn into mothers,
so mothers be good to your daughters to..."

It reminds me that we learn how to love another man (if we're hetero) from our fathers, but learn how to love our children based on what we saw from our mothers.

I was daddy's girl...he was the happy, always doin' whatEVer he wanted A. Mom was the p'd off, angry, hateful, spiteful, enabler. So, needless to say, she was the one I had the biggest problems with.
It took me two marriages (the first one, I believe I married my "dad" and the second, my "mother") to realize what a sick existence they have. I am the youngest of four, so I was told by 5 other people how wrong I was all the time..everything's fine! (clenched-mouthed): "We're a happy family!!" (implied):"...or else!"

I've let go of what I endured growing up, but still need to work on issues involving what I learned about relationships from them and their very unhealthy relationship. I'm doing a lot of ACOA reading, which really helps me.
The thing that I would do well to work on now is how to deal with them as an adult now. My mom likes to get together for EVERY ever-lovin' birthday, holiday, and any other excuse (like kids' plays, or concerts), and I am so sick of having to be around them.

I have two daughters (another reason I like the song), so I do bring them along...it's for the sake of them learning to have a relationship with their cousins, grandparents, etc...that I go. I have a pretty low tolerance for the game-playing with the so-called grown ups, so I am the first to volunteer to run to town for something, or go take a nap (find an empty room to get away).

Anyway, that's how I deal with it.

Take Care,
Kari

[PillPopper]

I am very fortunate to have my Dad. My Mom left us (brother and sisters) when I was a kid. Yes, there are dead-beat Mom's out there too! She left because she "wanted a life". She has never seen my daughter and I haven't seen her in years and years. I often wonder what she did with her "life". My Dad is a huge part of my life and my daughter’s life. He never cared for any of my boyfriend's growing up so I love that he loves my Husband so much. My Dad relied on me a lot growing up and tells me things that he wouldn't tell my siblings. I guess it resorts back to him knowing that it "stays with me when you tell me something". My Dad is very open and talkative "for a guy" No offense guys I learned how to express my feelings through my Dad. He told me yesterday (something he tells me all the time) that I am like him: Stubborn but loveable, strong but soft If I go too long without calling or seeing him he calls and says “Hey, what’s up Tweety? How’s my baby?”(referring to my daughter). My Dad is my biggest fan and I love him dearly!

[aasharon90]

Hi Im Sharon and Im an Alcoholic.

Good topic Anna.

hmmm...my relationship with my dad.....Today I wish i had a stronger more closer relationship with him. I am however very grateful he and my mom r still living today and r in good health as far as i know.

Both of my parents, 2 brothers and a sister live back in Baton Rouge, La. Sadly i havent talked to them nor seen them in sometime now. I moved here to Houston 9 yrs ago and that was that.

There is no feuding between us, its just the lack of communication mainly on my part. I guess since my recovery and addiction to alcoholism i separated my self from those that love me.

My distorted view and understanding of myself led me down a lonely path of drinking and dispair. And thus have pushed many special people away.

Anyway.....

Back when i was little, i endured the physical abuse at the hands of my sick mother who was also dealing with her own demons with alcohol and perscription drugs. Her own abusive childhood was brought into her own family and afflicted on me. During many of those beatings my dad was there after the fact to console me and reassure me that my mom was sick and that she didnt know what she was doing. One of those times when my dad was there to help me and protect me....she told me to stay away from my dad because he was hers. Hmmmm.....i do think that has had a profound affect on how i feel about men today.

I do have some fond memories of my dad and i going out shopping on Saturday and getting box lunches at Kentucky Fried Chicken. We were like pals back then.

Ever since those words were said to me, i have kept my distance from my dad even tho my mom has told me if i ever need him for anything then just feel free to call.....yeah right. Its not that easy as i am still afraid of her. Of course that is those old tapes playing in my head. Im sure some theraphy would be helpful in closing the door on the past with that.

Today, my daughter and son have a wonderful relationship with their dad. I would never want to steal that kind of relationship they share together.

I even get envious at times of what they have.

As far as my dad and I....maybe one day i can have that wonderful relationship with him again, but i may have to wait till we're up in Heaven to experience it. It will be something worth waiting for.

Thanks for letting me share.

[GettingFree]

I haven't spoken to my father in almost 12 years although he lives only a 20-minute drive from me. He essentially disowned my 2 sisters and me at that time.

I have learned to live with the sadness inside me. As a young child, I adored my father. He was a doctor, a cardiologist who saved lives, and I idealized and idolized him. As our lives began to fall apart when he and my mother split up when I was 6, I saw him as the victim.

He played the victim role continually. A helpless, powerless, ineffectual victim. Even though I learned later he allowed the lawyers to strongarm my mother out of the house playing financial hardball, so that she was the one to leave. Even though he remarried a woman who was terribly abusive, and he buried his head in the sand while my sisters and I suffered her abuse. Even though when I was a 14-year-old in great emotional distress and one day, through tears, looked up at him and asked between sobs, "Daddy, have you ever wanted to kill yourself?", all he could do was hang his head and walk away in silence.

I learned he needed to keep his own world safe, and to do that, he could not respond to the terrible pain his children were in. I learned how much he abused us passively by doing absolutely nothing to protect us from abuse. I remember my stepmother screaming from their bedroom, "Either they go, or I go, and I'M NOT GOING." And he did nothing. He shut us out, because to do anything else was too much for him.

I miss him in my life. There is a hole there. My sisters insist I was his favorite -- and that actually worked against me because they say it's why I suffered the worst at the hands of our stepmother. There is a lot of grief. There is also tremendous anger and resentment at how he has walked away from me, my sisters, and his grandchldren. My children do not know their grandfather. Only my eldest has memories of him.

I love him and I hate him.

this makes me cry

[Dawn10]

I am blessed that my Dad is my Dad. He is a father and a friend, advisor and support system. He has always been there for me and my brother and would give you the shirt off his back if you asked him to. He is respected and admired by many and I am so proud that he is my Dad. In many respects he makes up for the hardships in my relationship with my Mother.
I thank God every day for him!!

[kali ma]

I have a very strange relationship with my father. He coached my softball and basketball teams growing up. (He actually started girls basketball in my town, which is saying a lot because it was 1989.) He was incredibly supportive father, but never lovey-dovey. I was his tomgirl, and he loved it. My mom would get jealous that I would write all of my school papers about him...until I turned into a "young woman." As soon as I hit puberty, all bets were off. He hated the way I dressed, (and I was conservative!) and he hated that I was ALWAYS dating boys. I quit playing basketball, which basically severed our ties. My mother left him (for another man, which only I know) a few years later, the same year I left for college. To this day, he and I have trouble talking. He doesn't like it that I am a little feminist. He wants his little tomboy back, and I think still has trouble with the fact that I am a woman now. Although I must say, since I called him in tears last week telling him that I had to quit drinking, and I didn't want that to mean that I had to cut him and my brother out of my life, they have both been incredibly supportive. I went over there yesterday for Father's Day, and neither of them drank. I honestly can not remember being with my father when he was not drinking, same for my brother. I just broke up with my boyfriend who was 17 years older than me, (not married) and I know me and my psychologist will delve into that next week, and how it pertains to my father. Sorry for the longwinded message, I guess I needed to vent. Thank you all for listening. You have been incredibly supportive.

[igfan]

Originally Posted by cwohio

my mother was the alcoholic, father, hmm, maybe codependent. he is pretty emotionally unavailable. i speak to him maybe 3 times a year by phone. he usually isn't the one to make the phone call. not affectionate, therefore i grew up not knowing how to deal with feelings and expressing affection. i'm just now getting into my childhood issues and i know they play into why the 2 long relationships (one marriage) were with addicts. when i do talk to him it's very mundane conversation - he just doesn't know how to express feelings. he will never be the nurturing father we all dream of - but i am coming to terms with that.

Kinda sounds like we have the same family. My mother is an alcoholic, my parents divorced when i was 3, my father re-married and his wife of 32 years died in Jan 2005. It was during this time that i realized that my father had NEVER in my 37 years given me a hug (until the day my step-mother died and even then it was an "empty" hug) and had NEVER told me he loved me until he was on his deathbed this past winter (he thankfully pulled through). It wasn't until then that i realized how it affected me because just him saying "love ya" brought tears to my eyes, and talking about brought tears to my eyes. I've vowed that my husband & children will not wonder whether i love them or not, i make sure i tell them every single day and i hug them every day.

I just finished reading "Adult Children of Alcoholics" and let me tell you, it's like the woman wrote the book about me. Check it out if you haven't already. It's really an eye opener.

Thanks
Cheryl

[liveweyerd]

I grew up in a stable, safe home. It wasn't perfect.
From the moment I was born I was the apple of my father's eye. He is a retired educator/&administrator, I was a born academic and all of our dinner table discussions tended to be about learning. My mother felt very jealous, left out and stupid and took some of this out on me by being super critical. My family was very emotionally repressed. As someone mentioned, at puberty he distanced himself.
And years later my sis and I were able to identify that he had laid an awful lot of expectations on me, so that when I had problems or did not fulfill his dreams for me. I felt a failure as a person. I also have mental health problems which is not understood. For a time I resented him a great deal for not allowing me to be less than perfect, super-achiever, a regular person. I felt like a disappointment and shame to them. (with their help)
I have distanced myself from my parents for the most part for many years, sometimes not hearing a word from me for 6 months or more.
There are still some things that happened during my roughest times when they abandoned me and my children that bother me. But, ya know what, I kid about raising them! They have observed the relationship I have with my daughter as a mom and I think it has made them kinder and gentler, along with age and wisdom of their own.
To my mom's credit when I was not yet 30, she told me she had been jealous of me and was disturbed by the way she had treated me. That means so much. I have a real relationship with my mom for the last year for the first time.
Dad and I still do not communicate often.....but yesterday I called him and we had a wonderful chat. My parents were great about taking us on field trips and traveling...what a privilege! Yesterday dad said he was getting the itch, it was time to go somewhere but he couldn't figure out where to go since he has been everywhere! I loved it! (see, the hobo comes naturally to me). I love this gift they gave me....of intellectual curiosity and the love of travel. Anyway I told him that I would love more than anything when I was his age to be able to say what he just said.
I also spoke honestly to him about my medication and detox. I would not have done this before. But he was understanding and encouraging....instead of seeing me as falling down again and not working.
It makes me want to talk to him more.
One funny thing about my dad is that he knows I am a terrible liar. If he wants to know something he asks me because he knows I will tell it like it is.
A couple of years ago I met with my brother and sis at the airport where we rented a car to go visit folks. Well, sis and bro decide they want to detour to bar and then buy carryout and take the long backroads and drink beer. One of them called home and said the plane had been delayed and thus we would be late. Next morning when Dad and I are alone on front porch with coffee, Dad casually asks me about plane delay. Boy, I am in a spot now. I don't want to rat out my sibs. And am pretty sure dad recognized that they were tipsy and knew it wasn't true. I squirm, stutter, wiggle around and finally just said yeah. But he knew I was lying and I knew he knew and I knew he understood the loyalty trap I was in.
The family rule amongst others was "we don't have problems, if we do we cover them up" unspoken, another one of my dad's sayings was "There is no margin for error"
But yesterday when I asked about a young man he mentors and that I had contact with helping with job contacts....I asked how the interview went and if he had taken the job and Dad told me straight out that he didn't get there he was in jail for a DUI. But he said it with acceptance and with no less affection for his young friend. That really spoke to me.
So, I think that the way is paved for all of us to have the best relationship we have ever had.
I also love my dad's sense of humor. Mom is getting better, but she can get completely irrational and unnerved over some of what I think are the silliest things. She spent one whole weekend going crazy over some hippy bell sleeves I wore. I used to like to provoke her. As when I got my navel pierced and put a spider jewelry in it....and right away lift my shirt LOOK what I got!
My dad thinks these things are kind of funny. He is pretty liberal and open minded and just grinned and said whatever blows your skirt up!
Last time I went home I had my nose pierced...one of the first things dad says is hey, what ya got in your nose? bringing immediate attention to it. For the first time in a long time, I think he likes me! All he asks is how much did that cost and did it hurt? See, he was messing with mom too.
I could write a book here....but one very important thing that I like to tell people and especially to children whose parents are volatile is that I have never heard my parents call each other a name, I have never heard them fight (disagree but not fight), I have never heard them disrespect each other.
My dad and mom are great people and they just keep getting better. They are wonderful contributors in their community....cutting wood for the elderly, mom takes meals to the shut in and sick, they participate fully and contribute to just about everything in my little home town population 450. (Wish they would have thought about me that way when I was down and out!)
But really I could go on and on and on with many funny stories about my dad and his sense of humor. He is a prankster.
Writing this makes me want to go the extra miles to get closer to them, call more often and visit.
I also appreciate very much the way they have accepted my husband. That was sort of touchy because my husband is less than 5 years younger than my mom....back in the day, they might have dated!
And I reallly like it that my dad knows I am honest.
His best friend's daughter had a horrible addiction problem and dad had tried to help his elderly and ailing friend and when dad wanted to know about the drugs and had questions, he asked me. And never questioned or made me feel bad about knowing all about meth, addiction, prostitution, stealing etc etc etc. I was able to tell him what I knew without feeling like I was tainted by knowing these things.
My dad has taken every one of his grandsons and all the young men he mentors on month long fishing trips way up north in Canada in an Indian village where he has a dear friend.
Here I am 46 or 47, I forget which (but dad doesn't) and for the first time, I think my parents love me.
thank you for this thread, I know this is a very long post, but it has been wonderful to write it.
And I think I will plan a visit soon.
This has been a great recovery excercise for me and I am feeling soft eyed, warm and fuzzy.
live

[amymarie]

Ok. Really good topic. I struggle with the issue of my father. I don't quite know what to do yet.
Alcoholic and mean and as a result of him I am an incest survivor. But at the same time, the paradox is that I do love him and long for him to "change into the daddy I always wanted'. Yes I know it will never happen. He is an active alcoholic and he has never apologized for any of the pain he caused.

But that is on him.

I guess I love him more than I should, but that is a blessing- He caused enough damage to me and I would be much worse off if I let him have too much of my time holding onto resentments.

And that is on me.

[Hope]

Great thread!

I am trying to own my feelings and anything that my father does to hurt me and refuses to apologize for, then that is his stuff to deal with. I can't control what another person does but I have control over how I allow myself to feel over that.
It really hurts me so much because I would love to have a wonderful relationship with my father but I also know and have to accept that what I want is probably not going to happen. He is very mean, selfish, judgmental, and he doesn't care about the feelings of other people. He is not affectionate and is emotionally unavailable. I am tired of allowing myself to get hurt.

He abandoned me as a child and I don't know how to get through that hurt. I guess it will take time and I will have to acknowlege and own my feelings before I take steps to move away from the pain.

My dad often wonders why I get so upset at him when he wasn't there for me as a child. He just doesn't understand why it hurts me the way it does. I don't know why I let that bother me either....maybe it is my longing for a relationship that I know will never be. I just have to be strong and try to accept that for what it is, grieve, and then try to move on.

[freya]

My father came from an extremely dysfunctional alcoholic family, and although he was not (often) an active drinker himself, he had most of the other symptoms and behaviors associated with the disease, most prominently extreme self-pity, severe emotional retardation, and ever-growing paranoia. He had had several opportunities to get help for himself and undermined or sabatoged every single one of them. After having at one time had a wife and seven children and having been in upper management in a Fortune 500 company, he died alone in a goverment subsidized housing project in 1996. At one time a few years before his death, he had tried to convince me / manipulate me into letting him come live with me (as my mother does), but I told him quite honestly that that would never happen regardless of how out-of-options he chose to allow himself to get.

Although, once I accepted him as he was, I was able to get past the physically nauseating hatred I sometime felt for him when I was in my teens, I most certainly did not love him -- beyond the generic sense in which one is obligated to "love" one's fellow human beings. And I did not grieve his death, as I had grieved losing him (or, more accurately, accepted and grieved the fact that he was incapable of being a father -- or even a healthy adult -- in any meaningful sense of the term) in my mid-20s.

From that time until the time he died, I really did not have much of a relationship with him, nor did I want one because that would have meant wanting something in which he was incapable of particpating. I mean, I saw him at family events and allowed him to come over and spend (supervised) time with my sons (his only grandchildren at the time) but I interacted with him as little and as superficially as possible because I had come to know and to accept the fact that trying to do more than that was just going to bring me frustration, disappointment, and pain.

Personally, I am a big proponent of the Just-say-"NO"-to-the-idea-that-you-have-to-love-them-and-take-of-them-and-put-up-with-their-sh*t-just-because-they-happened-to-be-present-at-your-conception school of thought.

freya

[BigSis]

What I read in Alanon tells me that I should try to see my dad the way God does....

I think God saw him as a joyful child who had no desire to grow up. He had good values - he was a hard worker, and believed in staying connected with family. He was fun and fun loving. He was a joker and a rake. He was an eternal teenager looking for attention and approval. He was naive and innocent in many ways.

He was an alcoholic, but until I was older, I didn't realize how much of a codependent alcoholic he was.... (actually, until I realized that was what *I* was - an Alanonic Alcoholic.)

My 4th step (so far) has been all about my dad. I did it the Big Book way and divided it into 4 columns:

Who: My Dad
Because: He didn't like me
How that made me feel: -- unloved and not good enough
My part in it: I didn't like him and behaved in a fashion as opposite him as I could.

Funny, what I discovered was that what HE did and what *I* did... matched.

I have come to accept that my behavior was a direct result of surviving my childhood. It occurs to me that his behavior was also what he brought out of HIS childhood.

What tears me up is knowing that I can never tell him that I have finally grown to the point that I love him for who he is... just as he is.

Dad died in 1995.

[j'ade d'arcy]

Reading this thread made me realize that I am not alone in the dysfunction that is my father and my relationship...

I'm 33 years old, and I still am reduced to a child when it comes to him. Even though I tell myself to leave him alone, he's toxic, I always try again to establish something. Then I feel down when I am rejected....again. That is on me though and something that I need to work on.

My father has never accepted me, since childhood. It's unfortunate that I am the product of my mother's infidelity and therefore he has never wanted much to do with me. Which of course started a cycle of attention seeking, lashing out etc on my part....end result always being...me trying to get him to love and accept me..him rejecting and pushing away further. It's all about love/hate for us. It's very sad.

I know this cycle well and have tried to stop the damage in the past couple of years, but every now and again, I have the urge to try again with him...like Father's day, sent him an e-mail...still waiting for any response....

Thanks so much for all the honest sharing.

[boop64132]

OK I havent posted in awhile,but I had to respond to this one.
I was always closer to my dad then my mom.From the time I was a baby...I was spending time with him and my Grandpa in the garage getting oily and dirty crawling on the floor.LOL
Although he was never very affectionate...I knew he loved me.
He always seemed to know me so well.He even knew when I needed a few extra dollars,he would slip a 20 or so in my hand and say "dont tell your mom...you know how she gets."
My dad drank and smoked like a chimmney.He ran an automotive shop and also drove trucks over the road.Mom resented his drinking...in fact she hated it!

Dad died in 95 from lung cancer.I still miss him so badly I cry.
And Mom....well she is the drinker now....Go figure!

[redskittle]

I just wrote a long post about my dad, it made me cry. My liitle one came over and hit the ESC key!! Long story short, I'll give the facts.
my stepdad adopted me when i was 2.
He was a bigtime heroin user.
He once stole my B-day presents and money. (8th B-day)
He molested me.
He hit me.
He really sucked as a dad.
Finally he got clean and has been for a long time.
Now, he's got alot of money.
He tries to buy a relationship with my kids and myself.
He knows about my addiction to heroin and was supportive when it started 6 yrs ago. I've been up and down(mostly down), now I have 5 months. Today actually. Longest time I've been clean in all 6 yrs.
He dosn't really talk to me right now because get this one "I hurt HIM too much" Funny huh?

[osier59]

Thanks all of you for your honesty and posts. (that was easier than hitting the THANKS button 18 times)

Hugs
Barb

[spreadingwings]

hi all
my relationship with my father is probably THE most difficult relationship i have in my life. my father is an alcoholic although he has been sober for 6 years now. i thought that him getting sober would be the magic key to having a good relationship withhim. boy was i wrong! my mom and father divorced when i was 15, he left her for his ex-wife, who died a year later. that is what led my father to get sober. my father was very abusive all my life. again i thought that was do to the alcohol. WRONG! now that i am getting clean, i excpeted my father to understand what i was going through more than anyone in my family WRONG AGAIN ( i really have to stop assuming anything when it comes to him) my father refuses to have the least bit of stress in his life. i'm not kidding, he can't handle anything other than going on his "long walks" by the river everyday. he doesn't want any contact with me other than putting money in my account once a month. i am just a bank account number. i went over to his house one day for supper, and he told me i was too stressful, and would make him drinking again. it's not like i was even talking about anything "deep" it was completely superficial. my younger brother lives withhim, one day my brother finally went to my father and told him he was feeling suicidal and needed help, my dad responded by beating the **** out of him!!!! my dad is a time bomb waiting ot go off. i dread any phone calls with him, because it inevitabley turns into an hour lecture about how i "should" be doing things in my life. how i should spend my money, why i should get rid of all my pets, what i should eat, why i don't need meds , why i do