evaluating bonds

[liveweyerd]

"A number of signs indicate the presence of a betrayal bond:

1 When everyone around you has strong negative reactions, yet you continue covering up, defending or explaining a relationship.

2 When there is a constant pattern of nonperformance and yet you continue to believe false promises.

3 When there are repetitive, destructive fights that nobody wins.

4 When others are horrified by something that has happened to you and you are not

5 When you obsess over showing someone that he or she is wrong about you, your relationship or the person's treatment of you.

6 When you feel stuck because you know what the other person is doing is destructive but believe you cannot do anything about it

7 When you feel loyal to someone even though you harbor secrets that are damaging to others.

8 When you move closer to someone you know is destructive to you with the desire of convering them to a non-abuser

9 When someone's talents, charisma or contributions cause you to overlook destructive, exploitive or degrading acts.

10 When you cannot detach from someone even though you do not trust, like or care for the person.

11 When you find yourself missing a relationship, even to the point of nostalgia and longing, that was so awful it almost destroyed you.

12 When extraordinary demands are placed upon you to measure up as a way to cover up that you've been exploited.

13 When you keep secret someone's destructive behavior toward you because of all the good they have done or the importance of their position or career.

14 When the history of your relationship is about contracts or promises that have been broken and that you are asked to overlook.

From the book Betrayal Bonds by Patrick Carnes

[zoomer]

Hey LV, keep up the reading! part of the fun of recovering is finding out you were right all along! LOL!!!!!! Thanks for sharing!
Zoomer

[osier59]

WOW
This describes marriage #2. Seems like I did the right thing! I know I am much healthier away from a toxic relationship like that.

Thanks for posting
Osier59

[badkitty]

That is my current relationship to a T!! Where is this book? Is it a popular enough book that it may be available at a library? My curiosity is piqued for sure. Sad that this kind of "bond betrayal" happens to so many that there is a list written about it. And here I thought it was just me.

[JT]

Sounds codependent to me!! Time for a meeting!!!

This sounds like me to a T when I entered Alanon...pretty sick. I have come far and still have far to go!

Thanks!

[liveweyerd]

This is one of the best books I've read on this kind of subject. My copy is borrowed from a library and I just keep checking it out.
It is "The Betrayal Bond" by Patrick J. Carnes, Ph.D. ISBN# 1-55874-526-2, published by Health Communications, Inc 3201 s w 15th st Deerfield Beach FL 33442-8190

I'll post more from it in a bit. I've read tons on this subject looking for answers and insight and this book strikes me as the most sane and balanced.

I also highly recommend "No Visible Wounds" It's back at the library right now, but maybe I'll go get it again.

When I find one that speaks to me, I read it over and over and over again.

have a good day!
tena

[osier59]

Wow
I have to agree with you there, No Visible Wounds really helped me come to grips with thiings in my life. It sort of forces you right out of denial and helps you to see the events and people in your life with a tremendous clarity!

Thanks Livew
Osier59

[liveweyerd]

Osier,

Yeah, I am looking forward to reading it again, it carried alot of weight with me because it names and identifies things and clarifies what is going on, all those subtle things that you don't know quite what to think about them or what they mean.

My gut reaction to it was "So! That is what is going on!" I was never sure and so much of it is so subtle and I had never heard anyone else even speak of some of those things.

It changed my thinking. When one of those things would happen I would KNOW what was going on and could respond more appropriately.

It was the sleep deprivation that got to me! I asked my counselor WHERE HOW do they learn this stuff?!!!

Knowing it is a TACTIC and not just circumstantial made me a lot stronger.

Now I'm champing at the bit to go get it again....hmmm, wonder how many overdue books I've got, do I dare show my face????LOL

live

[osier59]

Live
Not sure where you live, but I pick up a lot of these at Half Priced Books. I get most of Melody Beatty's stuff there (all the Co Dependent No More stuff) as well as some good AA and Al Anon literature, and its all at ridiculously LOW prices.

Good luck. Happy reading!
Osier59

[liveweyerd]

lucky you! Small town, one chain store with poor book selection.

I want to clear up something I said that could be misleading....when I said Tactic that sounds counscious and intentional and that is not necessarily true, in fact, most likely is not.

We do, however have a public library, a jr college library, and a women's crisis center that has a small lending library. And, now, Vinnie has turned me on to books online....which I am just toddling in, not too computer/internet literate.

I am envious of y'all's skills with the visuals etc!

[liveweyerd]

Betrayal. A breach of trust. Fear. What you thought was true--counted on to be true--wasnot. It was just smoke and mirrors, outright deceit and lies. Sometimes it was hard to tell because there was just enough truth to make everything seem right. Even a little truth with just the right spin can cover the outrageous. Worse, there are the sincerity and care that obscure what you have lost. You can see the outlines of it now. It was exploitation. You were used. Everything in you wants to believe you weren't. PLEASE MAKE IT NOT SO, yo pray. Yet enough has emerged. Facts. Undeniable. You sizzle with anger.

Betrayal. You can't explain it away anymore. A pattern exists. You know that now. You can no longer return to the way it was (which was never really as it seemed). That would be unbearable. But to move forward means cerain pain. No escape. No in-between. Choices have to be made today, not tomorrow. The usual ways you numb yourself will not work. The reality is too great, too relentless.

Betrayal. A form of abandonment. Often the abandonment is difficult to see because the betrayer can be still close, even intimate, or may be intruding in your life. Yet your interests, your well-being is continually sacrificed.

Abandonment is at the core of addictions. Abandonment causes deep shame. Abandonment by betrayal is worse than mindless neglect. Betrayal is purposeful and self-serving. If severe enough, it is traumatic. What moves betrayal into the realm of trauma is fear and terror. If the wound is deep enough, and the terror big enough, your bodily systems shift to an alarm state. You never feel safe. You're always on full-alert, just waiting for the hurt to happen again. In that state of readiness, you're unaware that part of you has died. You are grieving. Like everyone who has loss, you have shock and disbelief, fear, loneliness and sadness. Yet you are unaware of these feelings because your guard is up. In your readiness, you abandon yourself. Yes, another abandment.

But that is not the worst. The worst is a mind-numbing highly addictive attachment to the people who have hurt you. You may even try to explain and help them understand what they are doing-convert them into non-abusers. You may even blame yourself, your defects, your failed efforts. You strive to do better as your life slips away in the swirl of the intensity. These attachments cause you to distrust your own judgment, distort your own realities, and place yourself against further hurt. The result? A guarantee of more pain. These attachments have a name. They are called betrayal bonds.


...from same book

live (barely? )

[liveweyerd]

health communications....www.hci-online.com

[Paulie]

This is really great stuff!!!

You are describing my relationship with Paul when we were using together. We are both sober now...but I have a hard time with boundaries!!! and taking care of myself.

[liveweyerd]

should I post more lists from this book?

?????
tena

liveweyerd,

This is really good. Thanks for posting it.

Hugs,
MG

[JT]

I am really enjoying this...have you put the book on the book club thread on Alanon?? I think I want to read it. I am reading Dr Phil right now about the authentic self...critical choices, pivitol people and defining moments. There are moments in time that we remember...before that moment we were one person and after we are someone else. I am going to do the work he recommends and it sounds like your book is similar. Helping to wade through the BS to find out who we are.

Hugs,
JT

[Paulie]

To answer your question, yes keep posting good stuff from the book!!!

Dr. Phil - I read his first book, and listened to it on tape, the life laws. I try to catch his show a few times a week too. The one about being over wieght the other night was interesting.

And the one (there is more than one but..) thing that I always remember is...we teach people how to treat us!!! That is what I have done in my family!

this is great stuff Teena!

[liveweyerd]

Trauma reaction

or PTSD

The deeper and more problematic issue with PTSD is how the alarm system of the brain is activated. Fear causes extraordinary changes in your neurological system and your organs-especially the brain.....when the trauma is overwhelming or sustained, the body's ability to stay in an alarm state is enhanced. The alarm state starts to feel "normal". A metaphor would be an accelorator on a car that sticks. You may accelerate, but slowing down again becomes a problem. And some trauma victims live with their throttles stuck wide open. The result is highly reactive, difficult people who do not want to be the way they are. Their lives are characterized by overreaction (angry outbursts, distrust of others, excessive behavior) and disturbed relationships (short term relationships, idealizing others until the alarm kicks in and then they hate the same people they once thought were so great)...

here are some characteristics of PTSD reactivity:

recurrent and unwanted (intrusive) recollections of experiences

periods of sleeplessness

sudden "real" memories (vivid, distracting)

extremely cautious of surroundings

startled more easily than others

distressing dreams about experiences

flashback episodes-acting or feeling as if the experience is happening in the present

distress when exposed to reminders of experiences like anniversaries, places or symbols

outbursts of anger and irritability

distrustful of others

physical reactions to reminders of experiences (breaking out in cold sweat, trouble breathing, etc.)


....ibid

[liveweyerd]

Addiction specialists talk about the arousal neuropathway of addiction. Gambling, high-risk sex, stimulant drugs and high-risk activities serve as examples of this category. Stimulation and pleasure compensate for pain and emptiness. In sex alone the possibilities are endless....Some relationships are saturated with arousal escalators-supercharged sex, violence, dramatic exits, passionate reconciliations, secrets and threats of abandonment--..As we shall see, high arousal that comes from fear and danger can be an important ally of betrayal bonding.
Trauma pleasure is seeking or finding pleasure and stimulation in the presence of extreme danger, violence, risk or shame. It is a frequent outcome of betrayal and trauma. Signs of its presence are:

engaging in high-risk, thrill-seeking behaviors such as skydiving or race car driving

seeking more risk because the last jolt of excitement was not enough

difficulty being alone, calm or in low-stress environments

using drugs like cocaine or amphetamines to speed things up or to heighten high-risk activities

feeling sexual when frightened or when violence occurs

seeking high-risk sex

loving to gamble on outcomes

difficulty completing sustained, steady tasks

seeking danger

constant searching for all-or-nothing situations

associating with people who are dangerous to you

Arousal accesses a neuropathway that is very compelling. If your brain adjusts to it, you would need the stimulation simply to feel normal. Then it can become addictive and interfere with your life. You will not want to give it up. The alarm state induced by trauma becomes the gateway to many forms of addictive arousal.

[liveweyerd]

Numbing. Comforting. Relaxing. Anesthetizing. Anything to escape the uncomfortable feelings. High arousal? Something to calm the nerves. Slow down. Bad memories? Anything to obliterate the interior world. An analgesic fix to make it bearable. Some use alcohol. Some use drugs. Some do both. Compulsive eating creates comfort and drowsiness. Watching mind-numbing TV wastes time but avoids reality. Excessive sleeping becomes like a butterfly in a cocoon, only there is no intention of coming out.

Survivors block their pain. One of the leading factors in relapse for alcoholics is that as they get sober, their memories return. Rather than face the pain, they start drinking again. More and more studies show that alcoholics may switch to other addictions. Addiction becomes a solution to the trauma. The neuropathway involved here relates to a phenomenon called satiation. Behaviors and substances that induce calming, relaxing, and numbing create electrochemical reactions in the brain that serve as analgesic "fixes". The neurochemical bottom line is anxiety reduction....Addiction therapists use the term compulsive to describe the repetitive efforts to calm the mind. The problem here is that again the brain will adjust and the compulsive behavior will become necessary in order to feel normal. Then it is hard to stop because it has transformed to addiction.

Signs of satiation of efforts to block include:

excessive drinking

use of depressant drugs or "downers"

using TV, reading or hobbies as a way to numb out

compulsive eating

compulsive sleeping

compulsive working, especially at unrewarding jobs

compulsive excercise

bingeing (with any of the above) when things are difficult.

Any trauma of sufficient magnitude will create this response in your neuropathways....Survivors often use a combination of strategies to cope.

[liveweyerd]

Escape. Individuals can find another reality to go to if the one they are in is too painful. This is like the Enterprise holodeck on Star Trek. When members of the crew are distraught or need a break, they go to the holodeck and create a holographic fantasy that seems very real. Many episodes use the holodeck as a counterpoint or even a plot. At the end of each adventure, however, the routine of being on a Federation starship returns, as do the problems..........
Splitting takes many forms. Sometimes it works as amnesia.

Addiction is an important partner to the dissociative process. Psychedelic drugs and marijuana, for example, are hallucinogenic and create an altered reality. Mystical and artistic preoccupation and some forms of excessive religiosity and spiritual practice create altered mental states and can be highly addictive. Two of the features of addictive disorders to sex, food, drugs, gambling and alcohol are preoccupation and obsession. These also have a set of neuropathways that are distinct. Addictions here are called the "fantasy" addictions and often accompany arousal and obsession. Some sex addicts, for example, have a pattern of falling in love. As soon as the romance starts to subside, they find another romance. They live for the thrill and borrow endlessly on the promise of "this is the lover that will make the pain go away."

Addicts will talk of the split in realities by saying they feel like two people: the real person who has values and keeps commitments, and the out-of-control addict whose compulsivity destroys everything important to the "real" person. Robert Louis Stevenson wrote the story of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde to explain the experience of alcoholism. Addiction and trauma specialists are starting to understand that this addictive personality shift is very similar in its processes to multiple personality disorder.

Trauma splitting, then, is ignoring traumatic realities by splitting off the experiences and not integrating them into personality or daily life.
Signs of dissociation include:

fantasizing or "spacing out" during plays and movies that generate intense feelings or are reminders of painful experiences

experiencing confusion, absentmindness and forgetfulness because of preoccupation

living in a fantasy world when things get tough

feeling separate from body as a reaction to a flashback

experiencing amnesia about what you are doing or where you are

being preoccupied with something else than what needs to be attended to

having a life of "compartments" that others do not know about

living a double life

daydreaming, living in an unreal world

obsessing around addictive behavior

losing yourself in romantic fantasies

the use of marijuana or psychedelic drugs

All of us seek the holodeck at some point in time. The problem starts when we have been hurt so badly that we wish to stay there.

[mathisonpaige]

I never saw that before and that is exactly the symptoms, examples and ways of an abusive relationship I have in my life and can't seem to stay away from. He is addicted too to a substance but wishes not to gain help but had been clean for five months. But that is exactly what a day is like together if I see him. Thank You. Paige

[liveweyerd]

Paige,
I am glad you can use this info.
It is very pertinent to me, I see myself all over the place.
There are 3 more trauma results I have yet to post.

[mathisonpaige]

for responding. please write the next two. love paige