Roadblock to recovery in the Uk

[clancy!]

Hi guys

I know I mentioned this earlier, but id like to 'flag it up' for attention as it is areally serious issue.

Once you have any treatment for addiction in the Uk it is entertered in your medical notes and is there forever. Same goes for anything 'dodgy', mental health problems, anorexia, HIV, ADHD.

The problem is that anyone who is judged to have 'need to know' is able to read your notes. Lots of people feel they have this need. Any employer worth working for,your bank, life insurrance companies, so many examples.

I was told (thank God!) when I went to a specialist addiction doctor that the minute he put pen to paper under my name I was 'finished' as a 'normal, viable' citizen, and would join the social underclass, unemployed and on benefit, unable to have proper financial services, buy a house, anything.

Of course I didnt go thru with it. He told me 'off the record' that i need to 'do it myself' (I CANT!!) if I want to go on being considered a viable citizen. He told me again off the record that opiates would do no long term damage to my body if i didnt inject, and was sussed enough not to OD. Basically it was a case of 'keep taking the tablets'.

Now you may be horrified at what he said. But he actually came across as a really warm human being who was telling the truth. He said his hands were tied when it came to people like me, who want to work, and live a regular life. He said nearly his whole caseload consisted of people who were lost causes in terms of ever working again, or getting financial services. I suspected this before I went, to be honest, but I didnt expect to be warned off so frankly.

Id be interested to know if anyone has any comments to make about this situation, especially if there is anyone living in the UK who has gotten around the situation.

Employers do have all kinds of second chance schemes which they have been forced to implement by the government, but having been on interview panels myself I know that in a huge percentage of cases its merely paying lip service, and just 'in theory' in practise your application goes in the bin quicker than you can shout censorship if you have a history of addiction, HIV or anything else considered dodgy.

I just reccently took out some equity on my house, as im lucky enough to have made a profit on it, but the lies i had to tell to get it. The woman at the bank said..oooh er, sorry to ask this, I know you are not this kind of person,but, um,um have you ever used drugs, are you gay,have you had mental health problems, are you anorexic,how much (EXACTLY) do you drink per week, do you smoke,blah blah blah.......I sat primly in my suit and gave the expected polite little laugh whilst dying inside of anxiety and guilt. There would be no way id be considered if id admitted to any of those. My ADHD is bad enough. I think this woman would have dropped thru the floor as well.

Please, any ideas or personal experience of getting around these issues??

[51anna]

Hi Clanc,

In Canada the law protects workers from discrimination against:

"-national or ethnic origin or race
-disability (physical or mental)
-religion, creed, political belief or association
-sex, sexual orientation, pregnancy
-age (exception for minors and in some cases senior citizens)
-marital or family status"

Now it would be naive to believe that works all the time, but my understanding is that employers are not allowed to ask and you don't have to answer if they do.

That said, I do agree that people with mental health problems and addictions are considered to be second-class citizens. There needs to be so much more education to the general public on these matters. It's always great when a high-profile person steps up and says "I have bipolar disorder" or "I'm an addict" because it makes people re-examine their stereotypical beliefs.

Love, Anna

[tobstah]

hi clancy!

wow this really sucks. My advice to you is to try recovery by going to meetings. there will be no paperwork there. its anonymous! and it really works. you'll discovery a beautiful recovery...

[Paulie]

Clancy -

It is nice to hear from you, you are often in my prayers kiddo!

WOW - talk about different than the US. Here you could sue that lady for everything for asking you those personal questions when getting a loan, that is totally against the law here.

I think it was very nice of that dr not to write in your file and to be honest with you but there is one thing he said that I do NOT agree with. Taking drugs by pill or injection, mouth, nose, whatever....is dangerous to your body, to your health, to your mental and emotional welfare. For a dr to say that taking opiates by pill will not affect your body long term makes me sick, he is WRONG Clancy.

I will not give you one of my lectures on how you shouldn't say you can't get clean on your own, I have give you many of those here . I will just keep praying for you kiddo.

Welcome back.

[clancy!]

Hi paulie,

yes, you are right, it definately affects your mental health forever, if not your physical. I think what he meant was that if you stop doing opiates, you shouldnt have any real long term damage done to your body by the opiates, not like cigarette smoking or alcohol abuse. I think he meant that body rcovers from opiate abuse fairly easily,compared to the more everyday poisons of nicotene and alcohol, which you pay the physical price for long after you stop. I have read that in other places too. Of course there are so many other ways to damage yourself on the road of excess that its a kind of pointless thing to say really, but I did realise he was really levelling with me, and treating me like an equal instead of that parent-child thing that goes on sometimes when you seek help.
If you know different Paulie, please can you point me to the info, because that was one of the things I really wanted to ask, if the opium would damage my liver or kidneys, and he said no, not in isolation, as far as his knoweledge went, and he was supposed to be a addiction specialist. But if have some evidence to the contrary Id like to see it for sure. Im always trying to eat well do yoga and stuff to try to keep my body as healthy as possible. I do have regular medicals (im quite a hypochrondriac!!) and they always come back A1. so far.!! I feel really healthy, alot more alive than I used to since ive been doing photography and loving it, but thats probably psychological I guess!
And I guess the damage that it does to your mental health is so awful, and pretty permanent.

I really do wish NA here was like it is in the US, but the meetings here are awful, i met a friend today who has been Clean for 12 years through NA, but he has gone thru some awful stuff from the members....the anonymous thing just 'isnt' here. Freddy (i'll call him) has gone thru some awful things from the people who go, as well as support. crimes against him and stuff. nasty stuff. If they are doing ok, then its okay, but he said when people get unwell (relapse) they can be awful to you.

Ive kind of sensed that when ive been....you have to be really on your guard, oh it seemed so far removed than what you guys describe. petty and incestuous and awful. And the folk who are at the meetings are not good examples of what its like to be clean! Well I didnt feel 'i want some of that' or anything....more whoa! reverse!

Oh well ive been really long winded and probably sound like im making excuses, But i wish you could just experience a meeting to see what I mean....its hugely boring as well with folk dronning on...and on...and on.... people are always asleep and stuff.

I just had this vision, i guess of sparkly eyed folk living happy ever after, all hugging each other and stuff.

Well i dont mean to be a downer im sure its just this town for you. Sorry again for long windedness!!

hugs xx

[Paulie]

Clancy -

I have never looked it or done any research. What I believe is long term use of any drug is not good for your body, plain and simple to me. And the thinking that i can use because it is not causing long terms affects still keeps people using, just my opinion.

Any kind of medication can hurt us, even the ones we take to cure us of things. My sister has been on so many cancer medications to keep her alive that the bones in her mouth are dieing. All I am trying to say, is putting any kind of substance in your body is not good. I admire the fact that you try and eat well and do yoga to stay healthy, that is a great thing!!!

I am sorry that NA is so bad where you live, I wish it were more like here to. But here there are also meetings where people go on an don, there is backstabbing and cheating and all the things that people do, cause they are people.

When I read that you met a friend 12 years clean in NA, I was hoping that the next sentence would be that you were gonna buddy up with him and do the program to. LOL, I can hope can't I.

Clancy, In my opinion, as I said, putting a substance in your body is not good. Just think about that, okay/

I wish you the best kiddo. And if you walked into a meeting in my town, I would hug you!!!!

[clancy!]

Well paulie,

I have pretty much buddied up to freddy, he is a good friend and he provides NA type support for me if I feel like doing something real bad like brown. Its easier to buy than a pint of milk round here, a constant temptatation, but Ive not given in to that for years now.....I buy all my drugs from a posh department store in town now!! Jeez, I cant believe they dont know what they are selling (huge bunches of dried poppies!!) they are usually cleaned out within a day. Perhaps they do know but its all very civilised, and the poppies are organic!!

Despite that Opium tea is an absolute mother of an addiction.....Dont even think about it, (just in case you ever do!!) It seems so harmless done up in a fancy wrapper from a fancy dept store, but its the dragon all right...full power.

Anyway I digress! Freddy cant go to NA a the moment because of a situation there, so he is really vulnerable now too. Threats against him and stuff. I know that he would be a valuable support system for me anyhow, but im nervous of getting to close or depending on him, he is a red blooded guy, and well..... y'know. Shame he is not gay. Oh well.
I keep meaning to go to a london meeting, just to experience it, but obviously its not practical for a regular thing. (london is close, but its so expensive to get there, the equivalent of $50 for a half hour train ride, with tube fares. But it might be an eye opener one time huh?
love xxx

[Paulie]

(((Clancy)))