A Gathering of Women...

[barb dwyer]

hi -

I've recently changed my home group
to our local Women's group.

it's not a new thing,
I actually did it a couple of months ago.

The group has grown from 6-7 women
to the last meeting - 30.

There's a dire need for women
who are making their own way
in recovery
and in life.

It's nobody's choice but mine,
but I don't hang around with men after meetings
I don't go have coffee with them,
don't return their phone calls.

I certainly don't hate men
oh no no no
but I am currently require-ant
of the company of women.

Maybe it's a 'change of life' thing...
because I've always been 'one of the guys'
goin out camping, shooting, hunting etc....
I'm the only woman I know who can work on my own car....

but thing is
it's always been women
who have stepped forward
and helped me
at the lowest times of my life.

When my daily prayer & meditations
took me into the contemplation of that fact,
I decided to explore
the energy exchange among women.

I'm frankly amazed
at how much wisdom
we DON"T have,
as a gender.

What are we, as seniors of the gender
(I just can't make myself say 'elder' yet)
what are we offering
these younger women
who are honestly seeking a life beyond addiction
and social pressure?

Is that feminist?
I don't see how it could be
it's not about superiority
it's about fulfillment of a gender potentiality.
A gender consciousness.

I dunno.
I could be full of it.

[historyteach]

Barb,

Feminism is *not* about superiority over males,
or over females either.
Though some would have us believe that.

And yes, in the early years of feminism,
some of the more radical feminist,
just learning to find their own voices,
were strident to the point of obnoxious.

Feminism is just what you said so eloquently.

it's about fulfillment of a gender potentiality.
A gender consciousness.

And just what's wrong with that?

I've been a feminist for years,
Seeking to find my own potentiality,
and to help others find theirs.

Superiority?
No. That's simply taking the patriarchal model and transposing it onto the female gender. But, that model doesn't work - for anyone. We know that to hold one gender down keeps the other gender down too. There can only be freedom when all are free to rise to their potential - whatever that may be - and with no artificial political, economic, religious or social barriers.

Yes, I'm a feminist.
And I wouldn't change it for the world!

Shalom!

[barb dwyer]

well then, so mote it be.

I agree that maybe the early idea
was to simply superimpose women
in a masculine paradigm

but who can blame 'em
I mean - what else was there to go by?
(God bless Bella Abzug)

I hope we're moving into the next phase now,
and doing things how a WOMAN will do it.

And that's along the lines
of where I want to go
with a feminine recovery as well.

Alcohol didn't do to us
what it did to men's bodies,
to say nothing of the emotional and mental toll.

The bb kinda goes into it -
but other than a couple of paragraphs-
it's all about what you can glean from
the stories in the back.

I just hope
someone manages to leave a path
worthy of being followed
by those who're coming behind us.

[barb dwyer]

LOL!

I think the days of linking arms and singing
'we shall overcome'

are over. That ship... has sailed.

Sorry.
Just had to throw that in there... vivid mental image there.

But I'm curious
how a woman
would command an army.
How a woman
would lead a country.

[Anna]

Being a book person, I've found some great examples of women who have become sober and wrote about their journey. Reading about recovery from a woman's viewpoint has helped me a lot.

Ali McGraw "Moving Pictures"
Mary Tyler Moore "After All"
Ann-Margaret "My Story"
Carrie Fisher "Wishful Drinking"
Lynda Carter "Wonder Years"

I have loved all of these books as they are written with a woman's perspective on addiction and recovery. There are more that I have read, but they are not coming to mind at the moment.

[historyteach]

I just hope
someone manages to leave a path
worthy of being followed
by those who're coming behind us.

Well, Barb,
It seems to me,
That you are doing exactly that!

Nice batch of books to read, Anna!
Thanks!

Barb,
Women have run countries and led armies in different parts of the world,
And in different eras already.
There is ample president.
The US is simply lagging due to outdated modes of thinking and (possibly) some fears of real competition. Let's face it, when is the last time a man put his coat on a puddle so you didn't have to get your dainty foot wet?

The wage gap based on gender, (and race), still does exist. (Black women have it the worst economically in the USA.) Though there are multiple reasons, the most persistent is the "pink ghetto" jobs women are stuck in due to their biological reality. They make babies. But, other countries have found varying ways to overcome that reality, and find economic justice for 1/2 of the population. Afterall, men have babies too, and that's never interfered with their ability to rise up in the corporate ladder.

These realities are not propaganda. Anyone who wants to, can look up the data and see the facts for themselves. The key issue, of course, is this: do we really want to know? If not, we can still live in the land of denial, and pretend that everything is ok. That woman can do just as well if they work hard. That having babies does not interfer with careers. That raising children doesn't interupt a woman who wishes to rise up the corporate ladder, (note how many successful women have no children). And finally, that all of the above does not mean elderly women do not live in poverty *because* of biology and the outmoded attitudes and policies that hold women back from reaching their full potential.

And reaching women's full potential is what you sought, yes?
There *is* a way.
We simply have to want it enough to demand it from our leaders.
Just as other countries have done.

Shalom!

[thirtybubba]

Not much of a feminist here...

But still, I agree with everything that's been said.

In my family, the older women pass knowledge down to the younger ones... everything from how to insert a tampon to how to manipulate your husband into buying you something...

When did the word "feminist" get twisted around? We are women, we're pretty much gonna be women... why has it become embarrassing/wrong to want to be pro-woman?

And Barb... women do lead countries. With varying results... it turns out we're not all the same! Some of us are conservative, some are liberal... Just 'cause it's a woman in charge doesn't actually tell you how it'll turn out. Kinda like Carter and Bush II were both men... but their presidencies were sort of different.

Just spouting. Sorry.

[indigo]

I have found such strength & wisdom in my interactions with my women friends young & old. They jmo have nothing to prove because they already believe their truths. There is peace & security in total trust.

[Sugah]

What a wonderful thread.

I live in a house full of feminists, and only two of the six of us are women.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[Ninsuna]

Women's meetings have been oh so crucial a part of my recovery. There is much in the experience of addiction that is different for women, and so much that is hard to talk about in mixed company. I was at a women's meeting where the subject of rape/date rape/sex while in a blackout was brought up, and oh my, what a big huge cleansing emotional flood that started! A lot happened to us in our addiction that we don't share while the fellas sometimes tell the stories of thier misdeeds with a little too much relish.
I have what I call sisters and aunties in sobriety, they are the strong loving women that sadly I didn't get to have growing up. It breaks my heart when I hear a woman in a meeting say that she doesn't get along with other women - or worse - I know where they're coming from, have had best friends burn me and a mother who wasn't able to love me and I want so badly to tell them they can have in recovery what they didn't have with other women "out there" .
Great thread, ladies

[barb dwyer]

hi everyone!

this *is* a good thread!

I'm so ... excited and at the same time humbled
to be able to watch a feminine 'community' awakening here.

[barb dwyer]

hi -
I didn't want to start a thread about it -
but this week's meeting - was the WORST womens' meeting I've EVER been to!

It was so bad I called my sponsor-
who told me to call HER sponsor-
who was at the meeting.

Now=-
I'd not slept for three days.
just got my shoulder put back in and I was little 'mis bliss'.
But the other women -
holy crap were they angry!
SO I replied to a couple of them...

and teh meeting even thought I'd TRIED to move it into SOLUTION...
they brought it right back to problem.

so I was like ... well screw it - my shoulder is doing great!
LOL!

But later, it bothered me.
Because I am NOT known for .... backing down in a confrontation.
I can jump right in your doo-doo with both feet
if I'm of a mind to.

So I suddenly became worried that I'd said too much or something.
(do we EVER stop making it all aobut us?)

Wound up having a great conversation with ..
what is she?
a 'grand-sponsor?'

she and I see things very similarly.

We didn't get into gossip
(cuz man we COULDA)
but instead, when I called,
I said I just needed some clarity
about my own comments.

An THAT ... moved me back into 'solution'.

thanks.
just thought I'd share that.

[Lenina]

Barb,

Thanks for starting this thread! I love women. I prefer the company of women, maybe because I had strong, able, confident women in my life while I was growing up.

Sometimes I think we are our own worst enemies. Today I was out doing some window shopping at Macy's. In the shoe department, I saw what I always thought of as "strippers shoes." You know, the ones with the really high platforms and even higher heels? I'd never seen those shoes before in a main stream store. It made me so very sad. Are our young women objectifying themselves? Are they discounting their innate abilities to become "desirable" to men?

Of course, we all want to love and be loved. We are sexual beings. But to me, this seems to be demeaning, to hobble one's self physically and emotionally.

I don't know how to put this into words very well.

I love reading Jean Shindola Bowen's books. She explains things so well for me. And Anne Wilson Schaef.

I understand what you mean, Barb. I feel like maybe our generation has let the younger set of women down. We fought so hard for equal rights. Women shouldn't have to imitate men to take our rightful place in society. We shouldn't have to be subservient either.

Love,

Lenina

[Still Waters]

Interesting topic and timely for me.

I was raised by, what I consider to be, a true feminist. A woman who believes in the power of self, understands that the genders are quite different (thankfully so), and that women can be anything they want to be.

That said, I've recently noticed (guess I've been blind) that men don't seem to have progressed as far as we have. LOL.

Might it be that young women are reacting to male influences more than female? The stripper heels, boob jobs, and such aren't things that I would ever encourage my daughter to wear or do.

[Sugah]

I'm pretty sure I'm mother to the only 16-year-old in this county who doesn't wear make-up. If she came home in stripper heels or told me she wanted a thong, I'd say...I don't know what I'd say, but I'm sure I'd use plenty of adjectives.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[Still Waters]

Mine wanted to get thong underwear. Uh, that would be NO.

All her friends wear them you know. :wtf2

[barb dwyer]

lol!

I remember 'everybody' directing what *I* did as well.

Lately, I prefer the company of women, as well.
So for now, I'm only going to the women's group.

And I, too was raised by a feminist
only they didn't have a name bnack then.

Mymother was a 'riveter' who didn't go back to the home when the war was over.
She stayed on and built airplanes.
Witgh an 8th grade education,
she trained stanford grads
in aerodynamics
and insulation at stratospheric levels.

I tell people
she was Joan Crawford
without the money.

But she had the looks.

ANyway -
since there wasn't a name for it
I wasn't rain to be subservient, either.

Funny, though
If I love you
you can do anything to me.
And I'll forgive it.
The only people allowed to hurt me
and do bad things to me
are the ones I love.

To a point.

And I never know
where that point is.

when I hit it
I;'m done.
Period.
And there's no going back..
Although I'm working on that ....
it's a formidable thing to bridge.

[Lenina]

Has anyone read "Even Cowgirls Get the Blues"? By Tom Robbins, I believe. I loved that book, still do! I read it back in the mid-seventies when I had 5 roommates. We all loved that book and invented Cowgirl names for ourselves.

Sadly, I've lost touched with some of those fine women. If you haven't read the book, do yourself a favor and get it. The movie really, really sucked out loud but the book rocks!

Love,

Lenina

[barb dwyer]

I *did* read that!

I went on a Tom Robbins kick in the early nineties.

[Lenina]

Barb,

I think I've read all the Tom Robbins books. I really liked "Still Life with Woodpecker" too. Ever play that after dinner game of who'd you'd most like to have lunch with and why? I always said Tom Robbins because he had such a nice turn of phrase. And he seemed to really appreciate women.

Love,

Lenina

[Sugah]

"This is the room of the wolfmother wallpaper," or "It has been reported that Tanuki fell from the sky using his scrotum as a parachute."

The man is king of the opening line.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[barb dwyer]

I dunno it'd be a tossup because I like Richard Russo as well.

[Gemmie]

Thank you for this post...I have never been to a womens only meeting in aa (my sponser is against them), but I think its time to check one out!!

[left4lonely]

why would your sponsor be against them?

[Sugah]

Some folks don't believe in "specialized" meetings because they focus on our differences from other alcoholics rather than our common bond -- sharing the solution to the problem of alcoholism.

There are other objections, too. When I was new, I didn't think I could have relationships with other women. I thought I got along better with guys. I thought that made me different or special, and then I came to hear a great deal of women say the same thing. Thankfully, that changed for me.

I enjoy women's meetings, and they often offer a sense of safety that some women don't find in regular meetings.

Peace & Love,
Sugah