Not pretty enough

[sfgirl]

I am with Littlefish in that when I started recovery I naturally started dressing more nicely and taking better care of myself. It was something about recovery and leaving the self-hatred slowly and trying to embrace myself that I started a skin regimen, started working out, bought nicer clothes, and put forth a more put together image of myself. This wasn't an issue of vanity or doing it for someone else because in fact it happened slowly over time and it probably could go a lot further since I am the biggest tomboy and right now my hair is in a big messy unbrushed bun on my head— but I was doing it for myself because I felt better.

I think the converse works as well work on the outside and the inside feels better. I think there is a lot of resentment on womens' ends about filling these roles for men, about looking good, about trying to aim for these unattainable beauty ideals but it doesn't have to be about that. It can be about feeling good about yourself. And the thing about resentment is that it only holds you back in suffering. I watch those makeover shows on tv sometimes like What Not to Wear and people change their outside and they carry themselves so differently. That energy ultimately attracts a different energy back. On that particular show they are all about showing off the assets you have and the body you got, not waiting for a skinnier body, not buying jeans a size smaller hoping you will fit into them one day or to remind you to eat less. Hey, it may sound shallow but I actually don't think it is— spending some time and money on yourself and your looks, a good haircut, some makeup, some great fitting clothes (things that suit you and your style and personality and look) might give you a new lease on life and certainly a new confidence. Why aren't you deserving of putting your best foot forward?

However, the reality is that if things were so easy— fix the outside to fix the inside— then life wouldn't be life. But it can't hurt. And maybe some of the ideas of shaking up your recovery program were good as well.

[Gypsy Feet]

I have no money to spend, but when I first started losing weight ( a year before I quit drinking), I was excited to try on dresses. When I got down to a comfortable weight I went, and low and behold, I looked like a total dufus in a dress!! Make up makes me feel like a moron as well. Christmas my mom will take me out and help me find a sweater and slacks that look nice, and my family will oooo and ahhhh at all of the changes since last year, which will be fun. In the mean time, I finally figured out part of what keeps drawing me to AA meetings. All of the "old timers" there are happy to see each other, friendly and such. I will try some more meetings, make some friends, and hmf, I'm just totally unsure of the dating thing still.

My room mate is male, and my age, as are all of his friends. At this stage, I wouldn't be able to date one of his friends for fear of what would happen if it didn't work.


I reckon if I ask enough questions, and stay still long enough to listen for answers, I'll figure it out some where along the line.

[Gypsy Feet]

I'm not actually interested in being more feminine I think. I am actually after that ideal where I believe I will find someone who will like me for me. I thought I had for a minute, and that has shaken me. But the people here who have reminded me it was about him are right, and I just have to figure out the line between being open to the possibility of love , and not being too vulnerable too fast. . .

hmm, and if I can't type love without a smirk, that may be a good place to start. . .


ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh (insert charlie brown scream=)

<~~~hot mess!

[Gypsy Feet]

Originally Posted by Bamboozle

Having a 'snuggle partner' is a very basic human need. Going without is damaging. Look at me for proof.

We need to be loved and touched by someone...and we need to touch and love someone. That's instinct, baby. It's as necessary as food.

Hang in there, GF. I'm hanging in there, too, me and my virgin self and all.

Big hugs.

whelp, I think my girl friend here nailed it! My epiphany for the morning is that it might be as simple as the need for hugs and human contact. My room mate hugged me on his way out the door last night, and it touched me deeply in that spot. I have been so blessed in my adult life, I had a husband who adored me, and affectionate children who love to hug and snuggle. They are all hours away from me now.

I do believe knowledge is power, and with this discovery I am hopefully I can make some progress.

I am off to get some sugar from my nephew, he is 2 and loves butterfly kisses, nose kisses, and making out with his favorite only auntie=)

Thanks Kbam, and all of you. This place is pretty amazing.

[thirtybubba]

I'm with Bamboozle on that, too. It's been years for me... all of my 20s.

I've long since given up finding anyone. The years of being ignored have taken their toll, and I would either distrust anybody who asked me out, or become wholly dependent on them--neither of which I am willing to go for. The tears that follow put me to sleep.

I don't know if I'm pretty or not, looking in a mirror, I can't see past the hollowness in my eyes, and that's from somewhere between my childhood and the liquor that took adolescence and adulthood. I'm told I am, routinely and by about everybody. I'm naturally thin and when I see pictures of myself, I suppose I look pretty. My cousin has mentioned on several occasions that guys are intimidated because of this, and that's why they don't try to get near me. I guess I might believe him, doesn't change how I'm living.

I usually don't wear makeup, and back in my blue collar days, it was steel toes and jeans. Nowadays, I like sundresses again--weather related though. Clothes, it's all the same to me, whatever's comfortable. Got no clue about Prada and stuff.

I'd like somebody to like me for being me, too, Gypsy. Nowadays (well, the last few years) I wonder if it ever happened... when I was a teenager, we were all young and falling in love all over the place. Since I've been an adult, the only interest has been from pimps and other predatory individuals... I've never been a prostitute, but always lived in areas of high prostitution till now.

And I seem to attract the half-toothed 40+ year old practicing alcoholic/drug addict... I suppose. The only guys who've asked me out in the last long time fit that description. I said no... maybe I should have went for it, maybe that was my last chance--is this my punishment for drinking? To never be held again?

Don't think pretty has to do with it. Seems like right person/right place/right time has a lot more to do with it these days... just my opinion.

-TB

ps. yeah, Gypsy, stay away from roommate's friends, for exactly the reason you said. smart lady.

[indigo]

I think simply being ourselves our beauty shines through & those who go around judging us by what we wear etc. are quite probably insecure about themselves. Stand tall be proud you are beautiful & if some people don't see it they are missing out on having you for their friend.

[freya]

Originally Posted by indigo

I think simply being ourselves our beauty shines through & those who go around judging us by what we wear etc. are quite probably insecure about themselves.

I agree with this 100%.

But then, of course, the question becomes "Are we capable of 'simply being ourselves,' so that our 'beauty' can indeed be seen and appreciated"?

Do we know who we are?

Do we love, value, honor and nurture who we are?

Do we "get" (acknowledge and celebrate in the very core of our being) the fact that there is amazing, divine gorgeousnous and unfathomable mystery in the unique, total package of attributes and characteristics -- physical and otherwise -- that, together, make us who we are?

Do we express and share who we are openly, honestly and fully with/to/for others in a way that also unequivically conveys how very, very valuable and lovable and special we know ourselves to be?

As most of you already know, I am 50 years old and I most certainly am not -- nor have I ever been -- Victoria Secret or Sports Illustrated swimsuit model material. I am also, by mainstream cultural standards, "too smart and/or too stong for a woman" (or, to use the technical term, I am a "b*tch")...and I put those things in quotation marks because I have actually been told them more than a couple of times in my life. (.....and just FYI, the correct response to being told things like that is something along the lines of "No -- the truth here is that you are not man enough to deal with how smart and how strong of a woman I am!" or "Well, you're not going to get any genius points for figuring that out (i.e. that I'm a b*tch), but it's a good start. Now maybe if you couild just figure out that that means you really don't want to f*ck with me..." basically whatever makes it clear to the "accuser" that whatever BS he's trying to put on you is his problem, not yours!)

But anyways, I have been separated from my partner for just about 1 month now and, not to be tacky or anything, but if I wanted to hook-up with someone tonight there are several people who have already made it clear to me that they're interested.....and this despite the fact that I am old and fat and undeniably eccentric and proudly a pain-in-the-*ss b*tch....and a couple of these people actually seem to have LTR potential, too!

So, what's up with that????????

I mean, clearly, this would not be even remotely possible in a world in which a woman's willingness and ability to confrom to the physical female ideal widely promoted in the mainstream media were the sole, or even the most important, thing on the minds of potential sexual and/or romantic partners.

So, here's the deal, as far as I can tell based on how it has always worked in my own life: people want good stuff in their lives. If I very obviously and assuredly and confidently and in a manner that brooks no dispute, treat myself, express myself and present myself authentically, sincerely, and enthusiastically as "good stuff," then people, in general, are going to respect that and be drawn to it, and a certain number of people are going to be attracted to that (sexually/romantically) and find that to be much more than "pretty enough" (because, let's face it, not everyone is going to be atracted to the same bundle of good stuff!!!)...and if I do that all the time, everywhere I go and in everything I do, then I'm going to find those people (or they're going to find me) and really, there's not much possibility that I'm likely to find myself having to be alone....unless, of course, I want to be alone.

freya

[CoDieNOmore]

I come from the other side of this. When I was younger I would NOT leave the house if my make up was not perfect and my hair done. I got all my self-worth from what others thought of me. I mean I put soooo much make up on that I did not even look like myself. One day I just woke up... shaved my head, through my make up away and traded in my heals for boots. All that outside stuff was not real and NOT who I am... I had to learn to love me... Still learning this. The men that wanted that painted up girl did not want me. I'm back to waring some make up sometimes...but only used to highlight my features.. Not to hide them. All that outside stuff is just that, outside. A man that really loves me will love my freckles...and will still love me even when I'm having a bad hair day. More important is I'm learning to love me... Not an easy journey for me.
Be Well

[Bamboozle]

Hey, GF. How goes it?

I feel good today. I got my hair cut (I'd been putting it off for a couple of months) and I found a pea coat that looks good. It emphasizes my features. I was lucky to find it...everything else I tried on was too tight or too big...or it fit well...but the shoulders made me look broader than I am (I do have wide shoulders...but I don't like looking as though I'm going to play football or beat the crap out of someone). This coat is....cute on me.

[freya]

Originally Posted by Bamboozle

This coat is....cute on me.

...or, how about: "I (meaning "you") am cute in this coat." ???????????????????



freya

[Gypsy Feet]

I have been wondering when you would make an appearance on this thread freya, you were missed!! You know, I am a nice person. I am kind and smart and sensual and vivacious. Where you say you are strong or a b*tch, I actually think of myself as more butch. I always hung out with boys, and I guess I project my strength in a masculine way if that makes sense.

That being said, I find I question my motives and my knowledge of self a bit more these days. It is definitely a result of the huge transformation I have gone and am still going through since finding "recovery". When I was an active drunk/druggie, and when I was married to a drunk, and when I was a rampaging codie, I firmly believed I knew who I was and what I was all about. I have since had my entire life turned top to bottom.

It is a fantastic process. I feel as if magic was reintroduced in my life. But I do get confused. The un-boyfriend thing still makes me a little nauseous to think about. I get that its was his deal, but it feels so weird that one day we are texting/calling/emailing each other many times a day, and then the next he breaks contact, but w/e. At first I thought about it a lot, because I was bound and determined to learn a lesson about ME from it, about what I wanted/needed from a sexual relationship. But I pretty much got no where, or every where at once, so I just don't think about it. Luckily (?) for me, I don't have any suitors lying in wait, so I don't have to figure out whether being open and honest and vulnerable is a good thing or a bad thing. And I am ok with being alone/single, until I start thinking about it, and then I'm like a kid on christmas eve, I want to have someone special!

Kbam, I am wonderful today, thanks for asking. I am really and truly enjoying all other aspects of my life right now. I am making friends, enjoying work, and living in paradise, all the while being blown away by this new path my life has taken. I am tickled you found a coat you love!! I am starting to look forward to the part after christmas where I get to exchange some of my gifts for things I need. Maybe, just maybe, I can find a cute something that fits me/my personality, who knows!

[Bamboozle]

Originally Posted by freya

...or, how about: "I (meaning "you") am cute in this coat." ???????????????????



freya

I tried really hard to write that. I'm getting there.

[freya]

Originally Posted by Gypsy Feet

The un-boyfriend thing still makes me a little nauseous to think about. I get that its was his deal, but it feels so weird that one day we are texting/calling/emailing each other many times a day, and then the next he breaks contact, but w/e. At first I thought about it a lot, because I was bound and determined to learn a lesson about ME from it, about what I wanted/needed from a sexual relationship. But I pretty much got no where, or every where at once, so I just don't think about it.

Actually this sounds to me a little bit like it was really about control -- like about your wanting there to be a reason that you could understand and point to so that you could explain it to yourself, and, maybe, be able to do something to keep it from happening again. And I do totally get the desire to "have" a reason like that -- even if it's a negative, not-good-for-me excuse like "I wasn't pretty enough for him," because that does allow me to pretend that I can have some power or control..........but, in this case, only at the expense of some of my self-esteem and, in any case, at the expense of my refusing to accept the fact that there are just lots of things out there that I am never going to be able to understand or control or anticipate or prevent and that, therefore, putting myself out there openly and honestly and fully does entail risk.

.....which, then, of course, brings me back to THE question: Am I going to live my life in such a way as to try to avoid the things I fear or am I going to live my life in such a way as to try to attain the things I most desire????????

Also, you know, I went through this thing last week for a few days with my ex where I was like all up in my head trying to figure out her crazy behavior -- and then I realized that that was just really about me trying to avoid feeling my sadness about the break-up. So, maybe it was easier for awhile to focus on thinking that maybe you weren't pretty enough than to feel the un-boyfriend nausea?????? Problem with that strategy, for me, was that after I went through all the obsessive I'll-figure-her-out-b*ll-sh*t the sadness was still there waiting to be felt!!!!!!! So, I might as well have just felt it in the first place and got it done with sooner!

But, anyway, glad you are in a better place now!

freya

[Gypsy Feet]

hmmmmmmmmmmm. I love it when I have been giving out advice I don't listen to at all. . .

I told my roomie tonight that he was grieving his break up, and it was ok, that he needed to feel it etc etc, and all the while I kept feeling like I was an idiot for feeling hurt.

thanks for the kindness freya and bunch.

Even if I wanted to close myself off to others and not take the risk, its not who I am.

[Threshold]

'Thanks all who have contributed to this thread....am going through an experience very similar to gypsyfeet right now...and asking myself the same questions, trying to figure out what went wrong so I can control it next time, etc, etc, etc,

I have nothing to add, I just need to re read all this and soak it in and sit with my hurt until the hurt moves on.

[Aysha]

I just read the first post and jumped to the end. So sorry if I missed something.
For me I really feel hideous. But mine is due to my weight.
I use to be really skinny and I could dress to the nines.
But I gained so much weight in my addiciton that now I feel disgusting.
I still have guys approach me every now and again. I guess I am one of those big girls with the pretty face.
But that is even fat. And I think from years of doing drugs and living the hard street life has taken its toll there too.
Some days I like how I look and others I want to puke.
I could flirt and had a little ego back before all of this. Now if I get a compliment I get all embarrassed and dont know what to say. I feel gross.
Recently this guy at work has been crushing on me. He isnt being shy about either.
He is not really my type. But my type has all been drug dealers for tha past at leat 10 yrs.
He is a good , honest, guy who works 2 jobs and raises his daughter. But he has that look of kinda like a soft biker dude. Kinda shorter than me and stockey. Bald head and tats.
Hes cute. And I have found myself interested. But I dont feel confident enough. He says he doesnt like skinny chicks. Hes not fat. He is stockey.
I am 250 lbs. All stomach. And chins like no tomorrow.
I never feel pretty enough.
But my attitude some times still is like ti was when I was skinny.
But then I have spent a long time just using men for what i can get out of them.
Thats from the drug use.
If its superficial I am can hold my own.
If its something real and I am feeling them. I get all self conscious.
I dont know what type I would be for someone.
I dress in mens clothes too. Not always but I do. I like big baggy clothes. I like my tennis shoes. But some days I like to wear fitting womens clothes with a nice pair of shoes. Never dresses or skirts. I havent even carried a purse in I couldnt even tell you how long.

[wicked]

hello everyone,
my name is beth and i just recently had something going with my physical ideal of a man on the internet. yeah, i know, ridiculous, but i was really feeling it, ya know?
we got acquainted on another forum and then started exchanging emails where i was honest, open, compassionate, and caring. i told him my age (50), my weight, (185) and the fact that i was excited about some physical contact because i was ready (it had been ten years).
for some yet unexplained reason, he disappeared for over a week, well of course, i was inconsolable. when he did finally reply to one of the emails, he had to make sure it was me. huh?
then, about a month later he was gone again for about a week. he said he went hunting (we both live in michigan and he said he is an avid hunter, so i went with that, but come on, couldnt you say something?)
this time he comes back, all apologies and finally admits he is still married. we had exchanged some experiences we had about bad spouses (i have made two bad choices in my life too, but have three kids, so all in all, not too bad.) i was not surprised, because some direct questions about his live in situation went unanswered or i was distracted by some graphic talk. (okay, been a while and i was practically foaming at the mouth by now.)
now, we had a few discusssions about how he is going to escape his marriage, (no, not for me, but because he has been miserable) and i tried to be supportive and helpful. he seemed to appreciate this and told me so. more discussion, photos exchanged, lots of talk. we get to thanksgiving. he says, "going to my friends for thanksgiving, dont want to be around the wife for the holidays." i can understand that, i have been there. so he leaves on wednesday before thanksgiving and i wait for him to email me when he gets back like he said he would.
well, who has a guess about what has happened? yes, you got it, i have heard nothing from him since november 25.
i feel used, abused, lied to and vulnerable. like a love sick teenager. and i have not gotten the human contact i was so desperately seeking and ready for. alright, after i type that i see the operative word is desperately. i am just sad and lonely.
please, ladies, some help here. i am not looking for eternal love, just a friend with benefits right now. someone to snuggle with and after some great sex, feel their breath on my neck. intimacy and trust. i have had no practice with getting someone, other than when i was drunk.
i am pretty sure if i tried i could do it, but where to go. its been such a long time.
maybe i should re read some of these messages. go to some meetings and work on myself until the friend for me shows up.
thank you for listening, i feel a little better now.

[Sugah]

wicked, because you've put this "out there," I'm going to offer something, and I hope it doesn't sound like I suspect it will.

I'm not a prude. We all have physical needs and they don't disappear just because we start to get older (okay, maybe for some of us they do), or because we're single. And in the past, I've had "friends with benefits," though in my experience, that's very often one-sided. He might say he's cool with it, or you may tell yourself it's all good, but usually (in my experience) has feelings that run deeper than the other. My last relationship like that was with another sober guy who said, yeah, it's cool, but when it came to an end, he spent nearly all his savings on a brand new Harley and drove it up and down my street. And he was, by his admission, perilously close to getting drunk -- after ten years sober.

But that's my story, and what you're talking about is an internet relationship that you hoped would become physical. I'm not judging your morals, though I'd suggest you read the Big Book from page 68 to the end of the chapter. The reluctant admission that he's married tells you something about what you were getting into. The periods of silence -- and how much they bothered you -- should tell you even more. Wicked, I know people who've met and have fallen in love and even gotten married after meeting online. It happens. You say you want a physical relationship only, but it sounds like you've become attached. You're expecting integrity (and accountability) from a man who has disappeared without warning before and neglected to tell you up front that he's married. And that's probably what you're going to find in "hookup" situations online. Just my uneducated opinion.

I have an idea. Why not join a dating site that screens and matches couples? It's probably naive to think that would be much more honest, but if there's someone out there who wants what you want and you're willing to overlook little things like "not quite divorced," you might have better luck.

And, since this is the woman's forum, I'll say there's a lot to be said for battery-powered companionship, too.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[Sugah]

Sorry, Beth. I missed your name the first time I read your post. You're not wicked...just a little randy

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[wicked]

Originally Posted by Sugah

wicked, because you've put this "out there," I'm going to offer something, and I hope it doesn't sound like I suspect it will.

No, Sugah, I am glad you answered. You seem very serene and I am glad you are honest with me, because I know I havent been honest with myself,and all suffering is of my making. Sigh......

I'm not a prude. We all have physical needs and they don't disappear just because we start to get older (okay, maybe for some of us they do), or because we're single. And in the past, I've had "friends with benefits," though in my experience, that's very often one-sided. He might say he's cool with it, or you may tell yourself it's all good, but usually (in my experience) has feelings that run deeper than the other. My last relationship like that was with another sober guy who said, yeah, it's cool, but when it came to an end, he spent nearly all his savings on a brand new Harley and drove it up and down my street. And he was, by his admission, perilously close to getting drunk -- after ten years sober.

Yep, absolutely. After thinking about it, I realized it would not work for me, even if he were separated from his wife. I want more from a relationship. I want trust and someone who will return what I am willing to put in, and I am willing to give a lot. Just not my integrity.

But that's my story, and what you're talking about is an internet relationship that you hoped would become physical. I'm not judging your morals, though I'd suggest you read the Big Book from page 68 to the end of the chapter. The reluctant admission that he's married tells you something about what you were getting into. The periods of silence -- and how much they bothered you -- should tell you even more. Wicked, I know people who've met and have fallen in love and even gotten married after meeting online. It happens. You say you want a physical relationship only, but it sounds like you've become attached. You're expecting integrity (and accountability) from a man who has disappeared without warning before and neglected to tell you up front that he's married. And that's probably what you're going to find in "hookup" situations online. Just my uneducated opinion.

Yeah, I will get the Big Book out. And I was getting attached, was already attached when he told me he was married. I know now that I was making excuses to get what I wanted, but that would come back to bite me somehow. In the end, he would not have been able to be there for me, and I do want that along with the physical part. Maybe now I can take the lesson learned and be more circumspect with what I want or need from some male company.

I have an idea. Why not join a dating site that screens and matches couples? It's probably naive to think that would be much more honest, but if there's someone out there who wants what you want and you're willing to overlook little things like "not quite divorced," you might have better luck.

Yes, I looked around and there are 500 men who say they are available within a fifty mile radius. Odds are good there is someone out there for me.
Sugah, I think I have learned that I am not willing to overlook "not quite divorced" because I have been cheated on during both marriages, and I know that men who cheat no matter what the circumstances, are no good as any kind of partner. I had lowered my personal standards because I was horny. Damn, I dont like that at all. Sigh..... But talking about it helps and getting some much needed perspective is a great thing.

And, since this is the woman's forum, I'll say there's a lot to be said for battery-powered companionship, too.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

Oh yeah, I hear ya there, once the motor starts running, gotta keep it tuned right? LOL

[Gypsy Feet]

I missed the new posts. Trish, I reckon we need to get ourselves straight before we have anything to offer. That being said, maybe the guy crushing on you was put in your path for a reason. I know for me even after redefining my dating needs, studying up on myself, thinking I know where I am headed and what I want, each new experience throws me for a loop and I have a whole new set of things to learn.

Beth I find that the more "desperate" I am for physical attention, the poorer my choices and the more I get hurt. At the moment, I have asked my higher power to remove my compulsion for that sort of physical relationship so that I can keep focusing on healing. It seems to be working quite nicely, and I am really hoping that if I am not actively looking for someone to date, I can make some nice friendships instead.

[wicked]

Originally Posted by Gypsy Feet

Beth I find that the more "desperate" I am for physical attention, the poorer my choices and the more I get hurt. At the moment, I have asked my higher power to remove my compulsion for that sort of physical relationship so that I can keep focusing on healing. It seems to be working quite nicely, and I am really hoping that if I am not actively looking for someone to date, I can make some nice friendships instead.

Gypsy Feet,

yes, and who would this desperate woman find (meaning me)?
well, someone who would continually encroach on my borders because I had already let my integrity go to scratch an itch.
sigh....alright, gotta work that codependent stuff now. geez, does it ever end? LOL
yeah, and I will be alright. just not ready for a guy right now.
now, where are those batteries? LOL