It's hard saying NO

[Rowan]

My sister separated from her husband shortly after Christmas. She's got three kids, and is relying largely on our family to help her out as she frequently works night shifts at a local hospital.

She just got back from Cuba where she spent a week with her friend, while our mother stayed at her house to mind the kids. Mom can be a bit of a martyr i.e. clean the house top to bottom, every meal has to be home-cooked, and totally exhausts herself. I feel bad for her, but tell myself that she can say 'No' also.

Sis keeps asking me to babysit here and there. Just a few minutes ago she sent me a text saying she was desperate, and needed me to come up tomorrow after work (she lives 25 minutes north of me, and I have a 40 minute commute already) to feed the little ones (4 and 2) and put them to bed. Then I am to leave, and the 12 year old will be in charge for the night. She is working an overnight shift. I absolutely do not agree with leaving the children home alone but am holding my tongue as it's not my business. Once I am up there, I don't know if I will be able to leave?

My sister is a good mother, but I don't understand how she can leave the kids alone. She makes excellent money and can afford to have someone in. Her relationship was not an abusive one, she wanted out for her own reasons.

I told her 'No' just now and I feel guilty about it. I've helped out many times in the past, and if this were a one time deal, I'd be there in a heartbeat - but I believe I would be setting myself up if I agreed to help out tomorrow.

Can anyone relate? I need some advice from someone not involved in the situation.

[Impurrfect]

((Rowan)) - FWIW, I agree with you. My niece is almost 16, and she's too immature, IMO, to be left with small children overnight.

I see nothing to feel guilty about. Sounds like she wants her cake and eat it, too. If she has made the decision to be a single mom, again, then there are consequences she must deal with...I'm big on letting people deal with their consequences these days

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

[cmc]

I used to teach preschool in a Christian school. Because I sometimes went to church there, some people felt that 1. they could send their kids 'over' to me during the service and 2. I should teach Sunday school and/or Vacation Bible School.
It didn't take long for them to realize that I was not at their beck and call; especially when I explained (once to each) that as a professional I could not divide my time this way and still maintain the level of energy given out during the week. I let them know that I needed summers off and that I was not everyone's babysitter.
I think that over the many years there were only two times that I babysat for students...and their parents happened to be my good, close friends at that time.

Saying no...we all realize that there may be some backlash for it, but I just try to remember that like you, I am there for people when they 'really' need me but that sometimes I need to step away in order for someone else to step up to fill the need.

I'm sure you are a great 'Auntie Rowan'....and that you love the kids and your sister very much- however, your needs matter too.

[Gypsy Feet]

You are my hero! The girls in the codependent thread would have a field day with this by the way haha, but I have soooo much trouble saying no to my sister. While I love having her son here, she does things like waits until and hour before I am to have him over night to cancel, or picks him up hours late on Sunday. So, if it makes you feel any better, I think you rock!

I also think 12 is too young to take care of baby sibs

[TTOSBT]

Nope Rowan.
You did exactly the right thing!
My sponsor tells me ALL the time....No is a complete sentence.
Cause I always feel so guilty!
To be honest I think she is being quite a tad selfish.
IMO she and the ex should be able to figure out how to take care of them most of the time.
She should have known that she would have to make sacrifices to be single.
And yes, she should now hire a live in nanny if she is going to be gone overnight.
Is that even legal in her state?
Anyway, that just annoys me a tad.
I have a 17 year old and a 9 year old and I (and my husband) have gone on a vacation without them once for a week! Now we have gone places overnight a time or two a year. Looks like your Mom is going to enable the behavior but it does not mean that you have to!

[Anna]

Rowan,

You are SO right to say NO for many reasons.

Your sister left her marriage by her choice and has money for childcare, so she is over-stepping her bounds by asking you for help. She is not stuck. And, I don't believe that a 12 year old should be in charge of a 2 and 4 year old. Holy cow!

And, lordy, if I had learned to say NO twenty years ago, I wouldn't have gone through what I did. I do understand that you feel guilty, because I still have feelings of guilt when I do that, too. But, it's also very liberating knowing that I made a decision and that it's the right decision.

[suki44883]

Yes...saying NO is very, very hard.

[Freedom1990]

I couldn't say no to my AD when my granddaughter was a baby/toddler. I only lived 3 houses down, and if I didn't babysit, she'd dump her on some scummy friend.

I was actually relieved when she and her then hubby moved back to his parents' house, 20 miles away.

Not being able to say no absolutely drained me.

You did the right thing. Apply a flamethrower to the guilt, dear. :ghug :ghug

[Rowan]

Thank you all for your responses; being validated has really helped to assuage the guilt.

Also, I appreciate the validation around my feelings re the children being left alone at night. I spoke with my parents about it on one occasion and my father felt that the eldest was 'quite mature' for his age and should be able to handle things. What if there were a fire? Or if one of the babies got sick? I do believe it is illegal to leave children of this age unsupervised but I wouldn't ever report my sister.

I wish I could talk to her about this but she can be very defensive and I am not willing to go there. I'll wait until she and I both have some time off; take our dogs and the kids out for a walk and maybe have a relaxed chat.

Thanks again y'all.

[indigo]

You did the right thing in my opinion Ro, no matter how good a mother your sister is a 12 year old is way to young to be looking after little one's hey it's hard enough for us adults. Good for you sis

[Freedom1990]

Originally Posted by Rowan

I do believe it is illegal to leave children of this age unsupervised but I wouldn't ever report my sister.

I think it is illegal. I know I reported my AD several times. Her kids had no voice in the matter.

[Sugah]

What did she do before she split with her husband? Did he watch the kids on her overnight shifts? Why not now?

I woudn't feel guilty. They are the parents, and together or apart, it's their responsibility to take care of, or pay for care for their children. I lived with my parents until my son was two, and there was no doubt who was responsible for him. They wanted to enjoy their grandson, not raise him.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[zoomer]

I have a 12 year old and a 13 year old and i'd never leave the 7 year old with them over night. I get upset when i have to leave them for a half an hour inbetween times when my ex gets off of work and I have to go to work. My ex though will leave for a couple hours at a time and it drives me crazy. My 7 year old is hard to handle and what if he decided to run out in the street? I think it is your business to talk to your sister about leaving the kids alone. So what if she gets her feathers ruffled. You care enough about the kids to talk to her about it. Yes she could get into big trouble if anyone ever found out. Alls it takes is for one of the kids to spill the beans at school and he whole life could change.

[Rowan]

I went to visit my mom and dad for lunch the day before yesterday and talked to them about this. I try to stay out of family 'drama' but I felt that I couldn't stay out of this.
I agree with the sentiment (thanks zoomer) that I may need to talk to my sister and let the chips fall where they may.

Before they split, Sugah, my sister would rely on either family or on her husband. He works strange hours and can be gone for days at a time, though.

I agree, too, that my parents should be able to enjoy their grandchildren, without being saddled with the responsibility of raising them.

If my sister moved back into town (she is in the country, 25 miles north of me) I would be more than willing to help out (kids could stay overnight with me etc) - but that's her decision to make.

*sigh*

And I'm going to add a little vent on to this: those of you who know me, know that I have been estranged from my eldest daughter for more than 5 years. She lives locally with her dad and his wife. She has finally been in contact with me, usually by text or email, with the occasional phone call. She keeps asking to see me, says she is ready, then backs out at the 11th hour. First time was Christmas, most recent was last night. She had texted me saying she wanted to get together this week. I haven't seen her since she was approximately 11 so I was thrilled.

I invited her to join her sister and I for dinner last night at a restaurant where we would be celebrating my niece's 10th birthday. My sister and my other niece would also be there. I couldn't believe it when she agreed to come. I was grinning from ear to ear and my gal friends at work were very supportive when they heard.

30 minutes later my daughter cancelled. Not ready. Too many people. Would prefer coffee, just us. So I said okay coffee then, how about after dinner I come get you. She didn't reply. So again she has bailed.

I understand she is scared. I do. But this is REALLY PAINFUL. I am grateful that I no longer think about drinking in response to emotional pain, but .. that doesn't make it less difficult.

So there's my vent. Y'all were so helpful with the other stuff, I thought you wouldn't mind imparting some wisdom regarding my daughter, with some ESH thrown in.

Hugs.

[Emimily]

well... having been the estranged daughter of an alcoholic parent, who cancelled two plane tickets, i can say that sometimes cold feet win out for years. i think you're doing the best thing possible by just loving her where she's at, being selfless about it, realizing that she is her own person, and having faith that she'll come around. keep her in your prayers and close to your heart, and don't let a resentment grow... she's still a child, after all. more importantly, she's YOUR child, and she loves you, she's just struggling with her own stuff. letting her be and call you and bail and loving her and being open when she calls shows her that you still love her, regardless - at least, that's what i got from my dad doing that for me. i wish i had let my walls against my dad down sooner than i did (about 7 years), but i wouldn't trade getting to spend the last year of his life with him for anything in the world.

the deal with the 12 year old watching the little ones, i don't want to comment on because i was little and my sister watched me because my mom had to work... so, i don't know. we turned out okay, i think.

i'm glad you're taking care of yourself by saying NO. i have a really hard time with that, especially when it comes to male attention... my friend charlie said the best way to correct that was to imagine that any question i was having a hard time saying NO to was him asking me to have sex with him in the back of his truck. i would absolutely say NO to that situation, without a second thought. helps a lot.

[zoomer]

I just had to kick out my oldest son. I thought he'd never talk to me again,but he has been calling asking for money. With my daughter though who now lives with me, I had to be patent and let her make her own moves. I took a couple of years to get her back (we did stay in contact with eachother for that time),but I was not a very good parent (not as good as I thought I was) and it has taken time for her to trust me and for me to trust her. I still do not trust her as far as stealing from me,but I just try and lock up the money before she gets home. I agree on letting her make her own moves,but there comes a time when kids are just plain hurtful and can pull your heart strings if you let them. I'm graduating tomorrow. My sons are not going to be there. My daughter however says she is going to go. I'm just giving her the tickets and hoping that she'll show up. Us parents have to do what we have to do to get on with our lives.

[vegibean]

I also relate and it is your option to say "no". As much as I think it's great that you all have helped her, you know you need to make sure that you're ok. I know I would be the first one to over extend myself for someone else and I have learned that saying "no" and someone being mad at me is a lot better than going along with it and then I'm not taking care of myself.

[Rowan]

My sister called me this morning on my way to work, hysterical and overtired. Someone called the police and children's services on her and she's been caught. She decided to call and accuse me - probably since I work in law enforcement.

I don't know who called, but as I pointed out to her, many know of the situation i.e. ex-husband, neighbours, etc. And it doesn't matter WHO called, I'm just glad it happened, for the childrens' sake.

By now, I'm sure my mother is blaming herself for not being there 24/7, and is probably racing up the highway to rescue her.

I feel that the longer I am in recovery, it seems like my relationships with family are becoming redefined - and not necessarily in a way that feels good. I don't like my brother, he beat me as a teenager - so I see him and his wife on holidays, but I don't go out of my way to spend time with them. I feel sad about this stuff - that in order to take care of me, I've had to step back. Can anyone else identify with this? It almost feels like survivors guilt, if I could call it that.

[Gypsy Feet]

I've learned a lot about boundaries from the people and the daily readings over on the codependency thread. What works for me in the infancy of my spiritual reawakening is just to put my faith in god/the universe/life what ever that I am where I am suppose to be on my journey. The other side to that same coin is that my loved ones are where they need to be as well. You can't learn their lessons for them, or make their mistakes, or protect them from themselves. Come join us on the codie thread honey, you are truly a gift and have nothing to feel guilty about here.

[Believe808]

Ro, when I got sober the first time I had to redefine my life with my brothers and sisters. There were 6 of us and they were not good for me and my sobriety. A lot of dysfunction was going on big time. I had decided and it was very hard because we had been close for many years, but I had decided that I needed to let go of them, I couldn't be around them and all the stuff they were carrying. It was a very sad thing and to this day we don't speak. But I can honestly say I do think about them but I can't be a part of their lives, too much bad happened. I needed to worry about myself and my kids, and if I would have continued my relationship because we were blood, it would not have been good for me. And this was all over their greed. Pretty sad.

[Rowan]

Thank you both. Your replies were helpful. UE, thanks for the invite to the codie thread, you'll be seeing me there soon.

Donna, thanks again for being such a good friend.

I went to my meeting tonight and it was good to be amongst friends in recovery.

[indigo]

((Rowan)) kick out the guilt non of this was of your making. Be kind to your dear self.
hugs indie

[facing2day]

I have been all over the place on this forum today and am continually reading about 'myself' in so many ways. I'm a bit overwhelmed.

I am sorry you are going through all you are and blessed by it at the same time watching everyone support you.

Hard for you to understand but reading all this is helping alot of us.

I am on 3 days no drinking, my whole life has changed in just 3 small days. It hasn't even begun. In just the last few hours reading through threads I have realized I have so many battles coming....smoking, anxiety, SAYING NO AND NOT FEELING GUILTY, the list goes on and on.....now dealing with it all, the abuse, the abuse of the siblings, the daughter I just reunited with that was adopted out at age 17.....thanks for sharing and for those who are supporting. Long road ahead, for many of us.