Gay or not?

[lizw]

How many woman here, after getting sober, discovered they were gay?
I feel like in the 'real world' I've been surrounded by them lately.....

I have had no expereince with this but recall listening to an AA speaker once who said, one of the reasons she drank was so she could stand sleeping with men!

I've also got a friend who has gone the other way - was gay when drinking and is now sober and likes men.

Maybe it is something to do with growing up? As I assume teenagers go through a 'sexual exploration phase' that we, as alkies and addicts may have missed as we were busy getting out of it.....

Comments?

[nandm]

Originally Posted by lizw

I feel like in the 'real world' I've been surrounded by them lately......

When I first read this I was a tad insulted but then re-read the post and put this statement into context. Being gay is not an us and them type of thing. Just as an African American compared to a caucasan person is not an us and them thing. I realize that you probably did not mean for it to sound this way. Unfortunately the us vs. them theme is what keeps the brick walls up and people from realizing that as humans we are all basically alike. We have the same needs, hopes, and dreams. That said.

I spent the majority of my life trying to fit into the heterosexual ideal, what my parents and the world seemed to expect of me. I was miserable trying to be someone who I am not. I married and divorced two men have 3 children. I truly tried to fit the mold. It was only when I stopped trying to please everyone else and live up to their expectations that I was able to find some peace and serenity within myself. I don't know if being gay is a birth defect or another aspect in the spectrum of sexuality or whatever. I do believe though that sexuality is not as black and white as people want to paint it. Just as there is a full spectrum of grays between the blackest black and the whitest white I believe there is a full spectrum of sexuality between heterosexual and homosexual. Just my opinon though, actually I was first introduced to this concept by reading some writings of a Jewish Rabbi. He proposed that there were 5 types of sexuality. I just expanded my belief from that.

My kindergarten teacher knew I was gay. She wrote on my report card that my parents better do something with me because if they didn't I was "going to be one of those people." I have also reconnected with people I grew up with (gradeschool, middle school) and they were not surprised at all that I am gay....one even said she never thought any different. These are people I had not seen or spoken to since I was 10 years old, I am now 43. I always felt different, I have heard alcoholics speak of feeling this way and I understand what they are saying but this feeling was different than that.

Today I look at my sexuality as no different than the fact that I was born with brown hair. It is a part of who I am as a whole not the whole of who I am. I rarely even think about it. I have both heterosexual and gay friends. It is not something I shove in people's faces but I don't hide who I am either if someone has the courage to ask me. I don't walk down the street or sit in a meeting holding my partners hand. But that is not because I feel I would be wrong for doing it but I just prefer to keep my private matters private rather than deal with the prejudice and hatred some people throw around.

So to answer your question, no my alcoholism did not affect my sexality in any way. It was my self esteem and the need to please other people that affected how I dealt with my sexuality. When I finally let go of trying to please others I was able to accept who I am.

[ColdSweat]

I'm bi. But I knew I was bi ever since I was about 10, and had a crush on a 17 year old Bostonian girl (I always go for the older ones! :p) & had an obsession with Catherine Zeta-Jones... now through my addiction, the drunk & stoned times, I'm still bi. Haha.

[PaperDolls]

It's very common for people who struggle with their sexuality to become addicted to drugs or alcohol. I don't remember the numbers, but it's crazy and scary. Even suicide rates are sky high with people with sexuality issues. It's just too bad it's like that.

My alcohol abuse never had anything to do with my sexuality, but that's just me. I have lots of other reasons I don't like myself and want to self-medicate. I was lucky in the way that I was raised. Everyone was loved, no judgment.

[ColdSweat]

Don't know about you guys... but I always had a real high confidence level, and drank/drugged only because I was upset with the way the world worked. Thought I was not gonna be a part of the world I despised by being constantly in a purple haze... I had to go through alcoholism and drug addiction to be down on myself.

It's kind of like,

"I became upset with what a man had to do to be accepted in the world... so I stayed in bed and drank. 'Cuz when you drink, the world is still out there, but it doesn't have you by the throat." - Charles Bukowski

[Jen042208]

I don't think alcohol has anything to do with sexual orientation.

[ColdSweat]

In retrospect, it could. I mean. Say, back in the day for instance, when gays and whatnot were really prejudiced against (not that they aren't today, but), one might feel so bad, that they feel as if they need to escape from it. Ergo, vices.

[Lily]

Interesting question Liz..... I know that for me, I never went thru that, however, after having gotten clean and sober I abstained for 8 yrs from any kind of sex or even kissing a man. I just felt used and dirty, so it took me a while.

I made up my mind that I wasn't going to even "kiss" a man until I had a ring on my finger. While that didn't quite happen, I got a ring 17 days later after that kiss and after having dated for a few months, I just needed a break from men for a while, and it helped my self esteem a lot! I didn't even sleep with my husband until our wedding night. After I lost him to cancer, I can tell you I didn't hold to the kissing thing again, but I didn't sleep with my current husband till my wedding night either, and since doing a 4th & 5th step in 1991, I can honestly say I have remained sexually pure since then. It helped heal a lot of hurts.

so while I probably didn't totally answer your question, I told you how I felt after sobriety and how I feel now sexually. "free"

[NOMOMERLOTMAMMA]

Well, for me, I had a lot of shame surrounding my sexuality. I often drank to hide from my relationships, or to make them into one. My journey into sobriety has been filled with rebuilding my self esteem, I didn't have much EVER.

After taking the 5th step most of the shame was taken away from me. I am now becoming more comfy with who I am. Which is a bisexual woman.

But, it wasn't the coming to grips with being bi that fueled my alcoholism, but the shame that I carried throughout my life. I, myself, have not met anybody who came out after getting sober. Most of the GLTB folks I know are PROUDLY themselves.

[Sugah]

I think you hit on something, Karen. I don't have any first-hand experience to share - other than I've decided that I'm sexually hetero, but emotionally bi. But that's irrelevant to my thoughts on the subject.

What I have encountered is a number of gay men and women who've expressed difficulty accepting their sexuality. I once worked with a woman for a short time who, upon getting sober and "getting God," decided that her behavior was sinful (she'd lived with a woman for ten years). She told me that God was going to heal her - and make her a healer, too. I tried talking with her through her feelings - but she would hear none of it. She became ordained in her church and promptly got drunk.

I don't know that sexual orientation in and of itself is a "cause" of alcoholism - I'd say no, but I'm not an expert, and I've done no research. I would wonder if whatever it is that makes an alcoholic an alcoholic isn't exacerbated when a dose of shame is tossed into the mix. I know that I've had some serious shame issues to surrender in sobriety.

I'm raising (or raised) four children (or young adults) right now, and my primary mission with them, other than loving them unconditionally, is to instill in them a sense of self-acceptance.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[vegibean]

I'm pretty sure that one of my friends had been through some really hard dealings with the fact that she is gay. She talked about it in groups and I could see how painful it was for her to come to terms with her true sexuality. I know that a lot of people go through that as being gay has really been frowned upon, that it's a sin, they're a disappointment to those around them. Really sad.

I can't say that I've seen it how you've presented it liz, if anything I've seen it a lot more when people have been drinking/using, kwim?

[nandm]

Just thought I would add that for anyone who is struggling with religion and sexuality a great film to watch is "For the Bible Tells Me So." It is a documentary of sorts with strongly religious families and how they dealt with having a gay or lesbian child. It also delves into the different scriptures that are often used to condemn gay/lesbian people and brings them into context. I was raised a strict Souther Baptist so I had a lot of trouble reconciling who I knew I was inside with what I was told the Bible said about people like me. In fact I became quite suicidal over it as I felt that I would be better dead than be gay, that somehow God had made a mistake when he made me. This movie answered a lot of questions for me. For anyone who knows of Richard Gephart, he is a politician here in the US, he and his wife are one of the families interviewed in this movie.

[ananda]

I have struggled with the fact that sexuality is part of my human nature all of my life. It is a whole lot better now than it was 15 years ago! Most of the time I feel that I am asexual (?) I just seem to have no sex drive for long periods of time. As a concequence of that I have been celebate for the last 15 years, and only unhappy about for about 6 months of that time recently!

For myself, it has less to do with sober/not sober and more to do with what particular stage of my life I am at at the moment.

In the last 10 years I would say that my sexuality is more about where I am at and much less about what others think/expect/want from me.

I think the real joy of my sexuality in this sobriety has been being able to enjoy my sexuality by myself...and I don't mean masterbating..I mean just enjoying the look feel and sensations and stuff of my body..apreciating it for what it is.

[Bamboozle]

My being gay definitely has a part in my addiction problems (or should I say other people's reactions to my being gay?...)...I have all sorts of issues, though... Gayness is only one slice.

[lizw]

Thanks everone for your replies, some got me chuckling.

I think maybe what I was trying to ask (in a round about way) was do we recovery sexually? And become whatever god/hp always intended for us to be, gay, straight or whatever....

I say this because there is that claim that emotionally, the age I picked up is the day my emotional growth stopped. Hence, why I was and still can be rather childish/teenagish emotionally.

I assume that everyone goes through some sort of normal 'sexual growth' similar to 'emotional growth', that helps shape a persons personality etc...since sex is just a normal part of who we are, just like emotions....

I could just be talking out of my a** too, but I have been pondering this lately.

On Sunday night there was this thing on the TV about boys exploring their sexuality and I know my daughter who is 13, has already had a girlfriend and a boyfriend (don't think she knows I know it though) and I never did anything like that. I just slept with most of the guys I knew and some I didn't! Then I was pregnant at 16.

I've noticed with my daughter it seems to be more about 'intimacy' rather than sex. I.e Forming close bonds and getting to know the person she's 'in love' with by doing things together.....

I suppose I am wondering if in recovery we go through things we may have missed out on because of drinking and carrying on etc....

So at the end of all that, the simplest way to say it is, who thinks we can have recovery with our intimacy and sex lives?

[freya]

Last time I read an article about this, the incidence of addiction to drugs and/or alcohol was reported at 37% among GLBT people, which is over 3x the rate in the general population.

Most research that I've seen points to 2 major factors accounting for this difference: 1) Historically, and still to a fairly large extent today, the places where GLBT people would go to socialize and to meet other GLBT people has been the bars/clubs. 2) Because of the high correlation between alcoholism/addiction and self-esteem problems, GLBT people, as not only an oppressed but also as a sexually shamed minority, are at much higher risk.

Actually, I personally have a kinda odd relationship with this whole issue because a few years ago, a woman I know through Al Anon, who is also very active in AA (sober 20+ years) in my city approached me about working with a sponsee of hers specifically around issues of sexuality (Just like you said in the OP, after becoming sober the sponsee began to realize that she might be a lesbian.) So, I worked with this woman (and, as someone else said, we started from the very beginning in terms of her liking herself and her own body and her figuring out what she likes and doesn't like and learning and becoming comfortable with pleasing herself, because she was pretty much totally shut-down sexually prior to becoming sober) and eventually she did decide that she was lesbian and, right now, is in a relationship with a woman that seems to be going pretty well. And now it appears that I have a little reputation locally in relation to this issue and 2 other women in similar situations have been kinda "referred" to me by their AA sponsors. Oh, well whatever.....everyone knows that we're into "converting" people right????? LOL!!!!....NOT!!...I'm just into helping people find, fulfill and enjoy their true selves.....and I guess I should be very clear here that I've only worked this way with "femme" women.....because, obviously, it would be inappropriate -- not to mention awkward as h*ll -- for me to be doing this with someone to whom I might find myself attracted.

freya

[freya]

Originally Posted by lizw

So at the end of all that, the simplest way to say it is, who thinks we can have recovery with our intimacy and sex lives?

Well, didn't see this as I was writing my previous post when you posted it, liz, but obviously, I very strongly believe that "recovery" works in the areas of sex and intimacy just as well as it works in any other area of our lives. In Al Anon the 12th Step reads: "Having had a spiritual awakening as a results of these steps we tried to carry this message to others and to practice these principles in all our affairs." Even without the unfortunate, unintended pun ("affairs"), ALL means ALL -- every single area of and situation in our lives, right????? Why would/should sex be excluded?

freya

[Rainbowgirl128]

Liz W I laughed when I saw the title of this post. I thought...is lizw cruising for women on SR? Anyway I am glad you brought this question up. I am 22 aand totally gay. I've always been gay - like ever since i was 5 years old. I can DEFINITELY see a connection between my sexuality and my unhealthy relationship with alcohol. I've never drank to try to change my sexual orientation because I am not ashamed of it. I drank to escape the lonliness that often goes hand in hand with being gay. It is just hard to constantly be surrounded by people who don't understand you and even harder to be judged. Also, it is 10x more difficult to meet a significant other when you are gay because the pool is smaller. In my sobriety I am working on putting myself in situations where I can meet more gay people.

Would I be an alcoholic if I was not gay? Maybe not. I get a lot of attention from men. It seems like I am attractive to men and not women. Sometimes Ill date guys to not be lonely but kissing them/sleeping with them genuinely makes me disgusted. So every time ive been with a guy ive been totally drunk. The point is that if I were straight, I would probably have much more liklihood of finding a successful relationship so maybe I wouldn't have ever abused alcohol to numb emotional pain. But that is a moot point because I'm never going to be straight.

I think the original question was do women come out as gay during recovery. I came out in high school way before i experimented with alcohol so that hasnt been my experience. But i can see how clarity of thought (from being sober for a long period of time) could make some women face their sexuality and what they want out of life.

[ColdSweat]

I'm recovering right now... but I don't feel as if I've ever lost my intimacy with people, or my ability to be intimate. I did the same "intimate" things when I was sober and when I was drunk/stoned (does that make me a tramp or just aware of my sexuality?). It just amplified my personality, pre se, and just made me be in a very dark place that hurt me & everyone around me. I have a loving boyfriend who's been with me in the last days of my using/drinking, and all of my recovery... I never really lost the intimacy factor. I don't know.

[scorpiogirl]

Originally Posted by Lily

I didn't even sleep with my husband until our wedding night...... but I didn't sleep with my current husband till my wedding night either

uhhh, wow! All I can say is WOW! My mind raced with tons of thoughts like, "how do you know you guys would be any good together"? "what if he wasn't the size you like"? what if, what if what if!!!?? I commend you; not sure if I could ever do that.

[bostonluv]

I'm recovering right now... but I don't feel as if I've ever lost my intimacy with people, or my ability to be intimate. I did the same "intimate" things when I was sober and when I was drunk/stoned (does that make me a tramp or just aware of my sexuality?).

- ColdSweat

I feel similar to ColdSweat although I know that I am not a tramp/****. I'm always surprised how complicated many women seem to make (probably not the best choice of words) sex. Really surprised. I'm hetero obviously from my other posts. I've always enjoyed sex and had a good healthy appetite for it. I had my fun (that wasn't so much fun) in my early 20s when sex was confusing and complicated but now I always have sex with men I love. And when those two are combined (for me) it can't go wrong. Sober or drunk I have always enjoyed it and not been wounded as so many others. For me, it is healing and part of who I am as woman, it's connective and loving. Oh and it's FUN! I guess I am just blessed/lucky.

[Aysha]

I am bi. Have been all my life as long as I can remember. My first experience was when I was 13. And now a days it seems to have become a trend among girls that its "Cool" to kiss a girl. ie..the song and all the crap I see now.
That is all just..I dont know. Like a phase. Me being bi wasnt cool or even thought about openly when I was younger. Even though I am only 33.
There is a difference between being attracted for sexual reasons and having a relationship with the same sex. BIG difference. I think.
Addiction had nothing to do with my sexuality.

I have noticed that my maturity level was stunted. I certainly do not act my age. And that I do beleive has to do with me starting to use drugs at 12 yrs old. I have heard this theory alot.

As I am coming out of my addiction. I am not interested in sex or relationships. Not sure if it has to do with my appearane. I have gained over 100lbs in like 8 yrs. And I know alot of it has to do with the things I did in my addiction. Sex has taken on a whole new meaning. When you cross a certain line it changes forever. At least for me it has.

Thats why I say I am not good for responding to relationship and sex posts.
I was a golddigging..manhating..addict who never had sex unless I was getting something out of it for so long. Yes I was a prostitute for a very long time. Streets and escort. That has changed me on that level forever.

MAybe I will get over it someday. If I find the right person. For now I am quite happy being single.

[lisa1235]

well i'e been single almost a year..i've been in recovery bout 16mos and im happy right now.i dont think im going to turn any gayer or straighter in recovery.i know to be intimate with anyone i have to get intimate with myself first.i want to know my likes and dislikes and how to truely love myself first clean and sober.i want to treat myself like i had desinated for treating"that someone special"before even getting into sexuality and secondary intimacy.

[PaperDolls]

Originally Posted by Bamboozle

I have all sorts of issues, though... Gayness is only one slice.

Amen to that one!

Although, I don't think of my gayness as an "issue". It's just part of who I am.

[Bamboozle]

Yeah, I see what you are saying, but unfortunately it is a social and politcal concern. I wish it wasn't...but I only live in the world...no control here. Besides, "issue" doesn't have to mean "problem" (sorry if that's not what you were implying I was meaning)...for me it is a subject of much importance. That's what I meant in that post.