***SIGH*** I need a new sponsor.......

[vegibean]

I love the sponsor I have, she's awesome. She does all those things that a sponsor is "generally" supposed to do and she sets a great example by doing her meetings, sharing, working the steps, working the steps with me and her other sponsees, yadda, yadda, yadda, all that good stuff.

I believe we're stuck. I talked to her last night and she feels like she can't help me any more and I feel like maybe I need someone that can relate a little more to my life. She's 24, no kids, never been married, I'm 38, been married twice and have two kids. Our family back grounds are different and then there's the "amends" thing.........we don't see eye to eye on that at all.

I know there are people that I need to do amends to, I DO NOT have a long list of people but on that list is me, my two boys and then a couple of family and friends. My mom is not one of them, my sponsor thinks she should be.

My mom since I last talked to her when talking about the "past" has told me that the only person she needs to answer to is God. My mom uses, has since I was little and has done some really rotten things and she lives in THAT place. ME??? I don't think I'd be all that fair to my kids if I blew off my bad decisions and told them "well, Mom only has to answer to God" and left them to deal with their feelings and put it all on them so I don't have to be responsible or accountable. Just one example, my bong put a bong in my hands when I was 8 years old and told me to "smoke this, it'll show you what life is really like" and then it went on to other things as I got older like flirting with her husband (BS!!!!!!!) and then one of her X's hitting on me when I was 15 and telling me more BS that "well, if you weren't so nice to him......." I mean, I think she's an @ss. I don't feel like I owe that woman any amends and at the same time to keep my sanity I don't talk to her right now. I just got out of rehab and I need to get myself settled and then my boys and my relationship with them.

I guess this is a vent more than anything. I'm just looking for insight too??? Am I making sense? I know everyone is different and we all have different things on our plate but my sponsor and I just aren't on the same page any more.

Anyway, I gotta get, time to go to work. Guess I'll catch up with you all later.

Hope everyone has a great Friday, WOO HOO!!!!!!!!!!!! Then weekend is here!!!!!!!

[NOMOMERLOTMAMMA]

Good morning!

Blech. It makes me sad that you had to deal with that as a child. That said, here goes:

Please don't get rid of your sponsor. I do believe that if you came to me with as a sponsee with what you've just shared, I would have to ask you to put your Mom on your resentment list. (did you do that?). It's extremely difficult to see your part when you've been so hurt, but have you tried to do that?

I have a few difficult people that were on my resentment list, and are on my amends list as well. What my sponsor has told me to do is to write out the amends to that person, it doesn't mean I'll ever have to do the formal amends, but I'm writing on all the folks on my resentment list. You might be surprised that once you do this, your resentment will dissipate. Maybe just being a better Mom to your kids will be your amends.

Nobody is asking for a feel good ending like in the movies for this, I'm sure your sponsor just wants you to get over this huge resentment so that you can grow and not let it continue to fester. These are the reasons why we used/drank. Ya gotta get rid of em.

PS: I'm a child of an alcoholic Mom too..

[ananda]

I am struggling with my sponsor right now, it isn't the first time nor will it be the last....I suppose if it goes on a long time or I feel a real draw to someone else, I will change sponsors...but some of it is just normal we don't all think the same stuff. My last sponsor was my sponsor for 15-20 years. Now she is not, and that is appropriete to where we are at in our lives.

I work the steps to keep me sober, not to keep my sponsor happy. Through them I am learning what my principles are and how to live by them. I suffered alot of abuse in my life, and the forgiveness was slow in coming. Seems normal to me now that the process took many many years.

the steps are always there for me, and I will work on them my whole life. what I believe, and how I see my past, and what my principles are also change as time goes by. The important thing is that I be honest with myself through the process. It is a we program, yet my sponsor is just along for the ride to some extent...it is my recovery to work through from where I am.

sorry you are having a rough time with this right now.

[dancinggirl]

Argh, I feel bad for the child that you were. This is probably wrong, but I believe that you shouldn't have to have people in your life JUST BECAUSE they're family. If someone has been horrible to you, or who brings out the worst in you, or is toxic (hm, sounds like an Oprah term!) then regardless of whether or not they're family you have the right to not spend time with them.

That being said, I'm thinking of you today and wishing you well.

[DSodaNow]

I can relate to you right now. I am butting heads with my sponsor over ammends right now too. I also do not have that many, but do have several people that have hurt me very much and are in general just bad people that I do not want to make ammends to. The reality of the situation is that this is only about my side of the street and not theirs and if I am honest with myself there are ammends to be made.

However, I do not want to make these ammends and at this point in my life I will not do them. My sponsor has encouraged me to pray for the willingness and reminded me that not all ammends will be done at once. I will know when it is time to do them.

Well... I am still praying. (Maybe God doesn't want me to be willing!) LOL

I am sorry to say this, but it doesn't sound like a sponsor issue to me. I expect that any sponsor would feel the same. But if you think you need someone that you feel more comfortable relating with, then you should look into a new sponsor.

Best of luck.

[reginaterrae]

I'm with NoMoMM and DSoda, I'm not so sure about giving up on your sponsor over the amends issue. Except, I wouldn't worry about the 8th-9th steps with your mother for now, but would go back to the 4th step on your relationship with her. Of course she harmed you, you didn't harm her, but there it is in the 4th step: "Resentment is the number one killer". So part one is working through how you are harming yourself with the resentment, and becoming willing to get free of it, and asking God to release you from this defect of character. With stuff done to us as children by our parents, that can take a long time -- but the time to start looking at it is now, don't endanger your own sobriety by putting it off. Once you gain some peace, once you begin to forgive her (for your own sake, not because she deserves forgiveness -- honey, if I had had to deserve God's forgiveness, I'd be dead) -- once you begin to let go of the resentment for the sake of the harm it does to yourself, you will probably eventually find that it helps you further to go and actually make amends directly with her. You will start to see that she's a sick woman, too, like any other still-suffering addict, and powerless over her insanity now and when you were a kid. Because eventually you get to the 12th step, and it might be that your witness to serenity, and your forgiveness, will be the only thing that will save that woman from her own hell. And if you withhold that, once you have become capable of giving it to her, then you will have harmed her and you really will owe her the amends.

That's just my experience, feels like strength to me, I hope it feels like hope to you.

And uh... do you have ACOA meetings where you live? Adult Children Of Alcoholics, a sub-set of Al-Anon? Highly, highly recommend it if you can find it!

[kj3880]

My best friend took some time away from her parents when she was angry like this. Her father abused her and her Mom neglected her.
She told them both "I don't want any contact with either of you until you grow up."
She didn't call either of them until she spent 5 years in therapy and 5 happy years with her husband, and the anger dissapated slowly.
She called them recently and started to reconnect, on her own terms. I like how at peace she seems now. Maybe that might help you.
KJ

[vegibean]

I THINK YOU GUYS ROCK!!!! dancinggirl, I feel the same way about family. We had a big discussion last night at our Aftercare group because one other girl was having "mom" issues. My recovery does come first before anyone else, otherwise I know I'm NO GOOD!!!!!

NOMOMER et al, we're not "breaking up" just yet, LOL!!!! But she said she doesn't feel like she's helping me and I just CANNOT swallow sitting down and writing my mom a letter you know???? My kids, ABSOLUTELY!!!! and as well, there are several others, not a lot (which is also an issue with her, I just didn't do a lot of bad things..........not saying I'm better than anyone, ya know??) but my mom??

DSodaNOw, I liked what you had to say about the amends as well. I think some of us need to probably go back as I'm sure I may as well but when I'm ready. I want to go slow and not get myself into a major emotional fight with myself over it. It just doesn't seem right????

Anyway, I have to say that I think everyone here is such great support and has awesome feedback!!! I can't remember who dragged me over here from another site but I have to go back over there and see if i can find her screen name there, come back over here and THANK HER!!!!!

Thanks you guys!!!!

[mizztake33]

Happy Friday Vegi! I think that making amends and making an amends list is something that is completely personal to you. If you are completely honest with yourself, and you feel like you are not ready to make amends with your mom, or that you do not need to make amends to your mom, don't. If it needs to happen - it will happen.

Good luck in finding a good sponsor. There's one out there for you! Thanks for this post . . . my first sponsor was 23, single and a lesbian . . WOOO what a combo!

[lizw]

Has anyone heard of the 3 list rule when it comes to amends.
I've heard it the most in Al Anon.
You divide your amends in to 3 lists
List 1. Will do ASAP
List 2. Not happy about it but will do should the oppertunity presents it self
List 3. Will only do when hell freezes over

I've always liked it as recovery is about changing so if as time passes one does list 1. sometimes names move up from list 2. to list 1. then so on.

[lovingseren]

Is your sponsor a qualified counselor?

This sounds like an area where angels should fear to tread.

Only you know who you should be answerable to... you are the one who lived your life as a child...you know more than anyone what you have been through.

Sometimes it is better to just let things go to God/the Universe, rather than try to make amends with someone who doesn't respect you as a human being.

just my opinion.

Seren

[vegibean]

Originally Posted by lizw

Has anyone heard of the 3 list rule when it comes to amends.
I've heard it the most in Al Anon.
You divide your amends in to 3 lists
List 1. Will do ASAP
List 2. Not happy about it but will do should the oppertunity presents it self
List 3. Will only do when hell freezes over

I've always liked it as recovery is about changing so if as time passes one does list 1. sometimes names move up from list 2. to list 1. then so on.

Well you know liz, that's pretty much what I had told her too, that maybe LATER but NOT NOW!!!! And that makes tons of sense to me. I think those are great little rules to use as a guideline.

[Paulie]

What step are you on? You said you just got out of rehab.

The amends if for you, not for your mom. Holding on to resentments does not hurt your mom it only hurts you. I am sorry for the childhood that you had.

I see people, and have experienced it myself, change sponsors because they do not agree on something. We dont have to agree on everything. Do what you are doing, talk to others, here and at meetings. Take it just one day at a time.

But remember, the amends is for you. We dont always make amends looking to be forgiven, we make amends to cleanse our heart. And if you think your mom is an ass for how you were treated that is fine, but holding on to those feelings will block you from building a relationship with others, even your kids. Our hearts are not meant to hold on to crap like that. And it will block you from building a relationship with an HP in recovery.

[bugsworth]

Hey vegibean! I have to say I am with Seren on this.

Exactly what qualifications does your sponsor have to counsel you in this regard.

Resentment is not healthy for sure, but what amends do you possibly have to make?

Personally I'd put this one on the back burner until you feel more comfortable dealing with it.

[vegibean]

Originally Posted by Paulie

What step are you on? You said you just got out of rehab.

The amends if for you, not for your mom. Holding on to resentments does not hurt your mom it only hurts you. I am sorry for the childhood that you had.

I see people, and have experienced it myself, change sponsors because they do not agree on something. We dont have to agree on everything. Do what you are doing, talk to others, here and at meetings. Take it just one day at a time.

But remember, the amends is for you. We dont always make amends looking to be forgiven, we make amends to cleanse our heart. And if you think your mom is an ass for how you were treated that is fine, but holding on to those feelings will block you from building a relationship with others, even your kids. Our hearts are not meant to hold on to crap like that. And it will block you from building a relationship with an HP in recovery.

Step 8 and I've been working with my sponsor for a while and in rehab.

She says the same thing, the amends is for me, not for her.........but for the life of me, I don't see it that way. My kids don't owe me an amends for every time they stressed me out and picked up a drink, I owe them one.

Things she has done goes waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back to when I was a toddler. I don't think three year olds owe amends for the things that I went through when all my mom did was turn the other way, take a drink and smoke another joint to see how "the world really is", she's still in that world and I prefer to let her stay there.

I'm sure you mean well but making amends to her would just make me more resentful. As well, even if I didn't do it directly to her, it would be like saying her behavior is forgivable and in turn it's ok for me to disregard my children as well.

[Paulie]

but for the life of me, I don't see it that way.

I do mean well, and please do not take anything I say personal, I am sharing my experience, what I have learned in recovery and what has helped me to stay clean for a while now.

When we say the amends is for you it is about your heart, like I said. Not about saying what she did was okay, and I know you will not understand this but you do have to forgive her to move on, but forgiveness is not saying it is okay.

When I said things like you statement about not seeing it that way I have always been reminded by others in recovery that have come before me that my best thinking got me using, others best thinking from their experience will keep me clean.

I know a neighbor is not the same as a parent, I am not comparing, but until I understood I had to forgive the neighbor that molested me, I could not find peace in my own heart.

[vegibean]

Originally Posted by Paulie

When we say the amends is for you it is about your heart, like I said. Not about saying what she did was okay, and I know you will not understand this but you do have to forgive her to move on, but forgiveness is not saying it is okay.

AND............

I know a neighbor is not the same as a parent, I am not comparing, but until I understood I had to forgive the neighbor that molested me, I could not find peace in my own heart.

I do see that you get what I'm saying and I have to tell you, I have a hard time forgiving my mother, more so than the "molester".

I've talked, discussed, asked questions and taken suggestions, but I'm just "where I'm at".

[NOMOMERLOTMAMMA]

Veggie,

Maybe you should post this over on the 12 Step forum, that way you will get ESH from more folks who are working the 12 Step program, like you are.

[Paulie]

I've talked, discussed, asked questions and taken suggestions, but I'm just "where I'm at".

I get that. And I believe we are where we are at for a reason and there is always more to learn. I have stayed clean for many reasons these years and a huge one is that I have remained teachable.

So I just ask that you stay open to changes and what could happen in the future. Never say never. Be open to others experience that have come before.

And I agree, posting this on a 12 step forum will also get you alot more opinions. That where I spend most of my time on the NA forum. I just felt compelled to post to you because I understand for the few times I have worked the steps over the years the power of forgiveness.

Just keep doing the next right thing and you will be okay.

Blessings to you and your kids.

[vegibean]

Good point both of you!!! Paulie, I do hear ya and I am teachable but when it doesn't feel right, it doesn't feel right and what I have learned from my past is that not listening to my own feelings (to thine own self be true) I've not honored myself.

I will again re-post this in the thread suggested. Thank you!!

[ananda]

I work the steps and go to AA....but even within AA and 12step programs there are many paths through the steps.

There is not just one way that people utilize the 12 step programs and work the steps in their life to stay sober, and even though I use the 12 steps, I want to hear how ALL alchoholics work through things and stay sober, the variety of ways makes my sobriety stronger. And the help of professionals and expereinces of non-alchoholics help me as well.

[reginaterrae]

Originally Posted by vegibean

when it doesn't feel right, it doesn't feel right and what I have learned from my past is that not listening to my own feelings (to thine own self be true) I've not honored myself.

See, this is key, and that's why I was thinking you're rushing the 8th step on this. You've identified resentment as a 4th step issue, you've confessed it to your sponsor and to us (5th), so you are really working on the 6th step here. You are talking about doing 8 before 6 and 7. Don't rush to 8, you would be doing violence to yourself.

6 -- Pray for the willingness to forgive (to have your HP remove the character defect of resentment)
7 -- Pray for the grace of forgiveness
8 -- Make amends for holding on to the resentment, for not treating her (now that you are an adult in recovery) with the compassion you have for any other suffering addict.

You may have already worked 6 & 7 for most of your inventory, but it doesn't all come at once in a flood. Every item on the list needs its own willingness. This is a doozy ... don't try to jump past it, but don't scratch it off your list, either. Eventually you will have to learn to separate your mother from her sickness, her addiction, and forgive her for the terrible things she did in her sickness.

Think about this: what if your mother got clean today, and three months from now she came wanting to make amends to you. If she cried and admitted all her faults, and she really understood the enormity of her faults, if then over a little bit of time she demonstrated she had really changed, how would you react? Would you be ready for it? And conversely, if you can't have compassion and forgiveness for your mother as a sick woman, an addict, then is there a line beyond which you won't be able to forgive yourself for your own past bad behavior while using? Those are 6th-step questions, in my mind. Can't skip 6 & 7.

Love and compassion,
Regina