Accepting Others For Who They Are - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

**Ann** · 12-16-2005, 03:40 AM

You are reading from the book Today's Gift.

Because you're not what I would have you be, I blind myself to who, in truth, you are.
--Madeleine L'Engle

Sometimes we expect far too much of the people around us, and because no one can ever live up to those expectations, we are almost always disappointed. But wouldn't it be better if we just let go, and let people be who they are? Then we'd be able to see them as they are--with all their beauty and goodness in which we take joy, and with all their faults which we can also see in ourselves.

When we have put someone up on a pedestal, sculpturing them to fit our needs and desires by smoothing out the rough edges and creating new curves here and there, we cannot see the real person underneath our work. All we see is the illusion we have created. That is denying the person's real identity and is disrespectful. It's much better for our friends and for ourselves if we drop our expectations and illusions, and accept them all just the way they are.

What unfair expectations do I have of others?

**Ann** · 12-16-2005, 03:57 AM

Quote:

When we have put someone up on a pedestal, sculpturing them to fit our needs and desires by smoothing out the rough edges and creating new curves here and there, we cannot see the real person underneath our work. All we see is the illusion we have created. That is denying the person's real identity and is disrespectful. It's much better for our friends and for ourselves if we drop our expectations and illusions, and accept them all just the way they are.

Some of the saddest relationships I have seen have been where one person tries to control and mold the other person into being "a better person", when in fact the person being molded is indeed a terrific person just as they are.

How judgemental and demeaning is that, not to mention controlling?

Perhaps this touches a nerve with me because in my codependency I spent much of my life trying to be the person others thought I "should be", to please them and therefore feel loved. Somewhere in all that I lost myself, my real and precious self, and it has taken me years to find her again. And having found her I have no intention of losing her again.

Today, thanks to my program, I have been freed from the bondage of allowing others to control my life or even "insinuate" that the person I genuinely am is not good enough. Humbug! I am a precious child of God and the best person I know how to be, and that's plenty good enough for me and I know it's good enough for God.

To thine own self be true

Hugs
Ann

**historyteach** · 12-16-2005, 05:27 AM

And it's good enough for me too!!!

Ann, thank you! Again!
Your shares are aways so meaningful. And this one is just the thing I needed to hear today.

Quote:

...Then we'd be able to see them as they are--with all their beauty and goodness in which we take joy, and with all their faults which we can also see in ourselves.

Funny how I can always see the faults of another, yet have such difficulty seeing the same in myself...

Quote:

What unfair expectations do I have of others?

Better I spend my energy working on "fair" expectations of myself, in order to reach my own personal summit, no?

Shalom!

**Ann** · 12-16-2005, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by historyteach

Better I spend my energy working on "fair" expectations of myself, in order to reach my own personal summit, no?

That sounds healthy, Teach, and a sign of your shining recovery that you can recognize how to work on being the best person you can be and accept that person as the wonderful person she is...you.

I don't need a pedastal and neither do you. The view is just find from where I stand today.

Hugs
Ann

somebodysfool · 12-16-2005, 06:44 AM

I hope this comes out the right way...

I have always had a little trouble with this concept. My husband would use the phrase "I'll never be accepted" or "why can't you just accept me" and I would respond "if I didn't accept you would I still be here after 20 years?"
Or he'd use the "it's who I am" meaning someone who likes to go out and drimk A LOT and I would say " I know you are a social guy, you get energized through activity, but the drinking is not who you are it is what you choose to do"
Now I know, that these conversations were all in vain at the time. Since he has been working at becoming sober and learning through AA he hears these words again being replayed in his head and has told me he is getting it now.
So as far as acceptance goes do alcoholics see the difference in us accepting the person but not the disease? When we would be in an argument I would turn the acceptance issue back on him because I could easily state a case for feeling unaccepted by him compared to the alcohol and he would stop cold in conversation saying he didn't realize that. I want to be accepted but I don't want him to accpet my controlling his disease. I realize the difference that he can accept me and not my codie behaviors. I need to work at being the best me and that would be minus the ugly codependent part. Which naturally would make me more acceptable. Just like a sober spouse. Am I wrong? I don't mind if you tell me. I guess I just don't want to accept the wife of an active alcoholic lifestyle anymore. Is that different from the person?

J

Dan · 12-16-2005, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ann

All we see is the illusion we have created. That is denying the person's real identity and is disrespectful.

In more ways than I can express.

And in my lived experience, I've found that these circumstances can very well be fueled by both parties involved. And , when one of the energy sources for this dysfunctionality suddenly goes dry, it more often than not turns into something just as dangerous as pedestal placing; absolute insistence that it never happened.
I know this, because it happened to me.
No greater ongoing lesson in acceptance than that of an illusion gone wrong.

Dan · 12-16-2005, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somebodysfool

So as far as acceptance goes do alcoholics see the difference in us accepting the person but not the disease?

I was only able to see that when I sobered up.
Before that, it was part of the things I couldn't take on board, for it would have jeopardized my ability to justify my drinking, I think.

somebodysfool · 12-16-2005, 09:34 AM

Makes sense. I am hearing a lot that the sobering up part has to take place. It helps me to remember that fact. Then a clearer picture of reality sets in. On a clear day you could see forever. HA. At least we've gotten this far. Now the mottos are really starting to make sense too. Like one day at a time.

J

nutz · 12-16-2005, 02:48 PM

everything stARTs at home. My love, my hate, my acceptence.

"you can't love someone else unless you love yourself"
It's not something we all havn't heard. Aplication ain't easy.lol
Don't get it confussed with instance gradification.
(self serving, ego, your rights, wants.)
So...you gotta ask yourself the stupid question when you sober up.
DO I LOVE MYSELF ? Again, don't get it confussed with gradifications.

CAN I ACCEPT MYSELF ? Mmmm...a dirty rotten alki, addict. (4th step)
Will, if I can accept that (me) with all my flaws and imperfections.
So....why in the hell would one expect anyone else to be perfect.

Oki doki....I'm an alki, but not everything about me is bad.
Wow I have assets !!! It's amazing how one finds out things after taking
one own inventory. Can I accept that I am not all bad ???
Holy schmoly !!! I'm actually good at certain things or areas.
So....I guess everybody else must have assets too.
That's hell of concept.lmaf

But that's not real problem...we all know that.
It's the instant gradification factor, or laziness.
Why the hell would I want to work myself....hell that requires work.
And certainly we can't pay others to do this god giving reponsiablity.
Of course we've all tried it. Pleasing, teasing, paying, demanding of others.
It's just seems like the easier softer way and so, so addictive and habit
forming. Just couldn't help myself.lol How about you ???

As a man...I guess, I'll have to ask myself this stupid question.
How the hell am I going to rule the world if I can't even help myself
or rule myself ??? I guess accepting/loving myself so i can truly love
and accept others . mmmm....sobering up to recognizing
the simplicity of this is a start, i guess.

nutz · 12-16-2005, 02:50 PM

everything stARTs at home. My love, my hate, my acceptence.

"you can't love someone else unless you love yourself"
It's not something we all havn't heard. Aplication ain't easy.lol
Don't get it confussed with instance gradification.
(self serving, ego, your rights, wants.)
So...you gotta ask yourself the stupid question when you sober up.
DO I LOVE MYSELF ? Again, don't get it confussed with gradifications.

CAN I ACCEPT MYSELF ? Mmmm...a dirty rotten alki, addict. (4th step)
Will, if I can accept that (me) with all my flaws and imperfections.
So....why in the hell would one expect anyone else to be perfect.

Oki doki....I'm an alki, but not everything about me is bad.
Wow I have assets !!! It's amazing how one finds out things after taking
one own inventory. Can I accept that I am not all bad ???
Holy schmoly !!! I'm actually good at certain things or areas.
So....I guess everybody else must have assets too.
That's hell of concept.lmaf

But that's not real problem...we all know that.
It's the instant gradification factor, or laziness.
Why the hell would I want to work on myself....hell that requires work.
And certainly we can't pay others to do this god giving reponsiablity.
Of course we've all tried it. Pleasing, teasing, paying, demanding of others.
It's just seems like the easier softer way and so, so addictive and habit
forming. Just couldn't help myself.lol How about you ???

nutz · 12-16-2005, 02:52 PM

everything stARTs at home. My love, my hate, my acceptence.

"you can't love someone else unless you love yourself"
It's not something we all havn't heard. Aplication ain't easy.lol
Don't get it confussed with instance gradification.
(self serving, ego, your rights, wants.)
So...you gotta ask yourself the stupid question when you sober up.
DO I LOVE MYSELF ? Again, don't get it confussed with gradifications.

CAN I ACCEPT MYSELF ? Mmmm...a dirty rotten alki, addict. (4th step)
Will, if I can accept that (me) with all my flaws and imperfections.
So....why in the hell would one expect anyone else to be perfect.

Oki doki....I'm an alki, but not everything about me is bad.
Wow I have assets !!! It's amazing how one finds out things after taking
one own inventory. Can I accept that I am not all bad ???
Holy schmoly !!! I'm actually good at certain things or areas.
So....I guess everybody else must have assets too.
That's hell of concept.lmaf

But that's not real problem...we all know that.
It's the instant gradification factor, or laziness.
Why the hell would I want to work on myself....hell that requires work.
And certainly we can't pay others to do this god giving reponsiablity.
Of course we've all tried it. Pleasing, teasing, paying, demanding of others.
It just seems like the easier softer way and so, so addictive and habit
forming. Just couldn't help myself.lol How about you ???

nutz · 12-16-2005, 02:58 PM

Know thy self.
Can you truly love yourself , so you can love others.
LOVE ONE ANOTHER.....some dude around 2000 years ago
tried to keep it simple for us. he shorten the commanments from 10 to 2.
He knew we we're freaking insane (complicated).lmaf

dizzyj · 12-16-2005, 03:12 PM

Ann, i liked your message, and your right if we didn't expect things of others, maybe just maybe we could expect alot more of ourselves.

**Ann** · 12-16-2005, 05:50 PM

Okay gang, question.

My recovery has taught me that it is not for me to change others, nor for them to change me...we are each responsible for ourselves. But..if a person is our friend or partner (and not using or drinking) why would we want to change them? I'm thinking of a situation where a person initially attracts us as a decent human being, and we become friends and then proceed to notice all the little things we want to change in them (or they want to change in us).

Is it normal human instinct to want to change people? I'm just curious to know how you feel about this.

Hugs
Ann

Dan · 12-16-2005, 05:54 PM

I don't know if it's so much human instinct to want to change people as it is to want them to see things our way.

**Ann** · 12-16-2005, 06:29 PM

Isn't that much the same thing? To have someone respect or understand what I think, doesn't mean they have to agree with it. But to have them see it my way, is to have them agree, yes? Which may be a change of how they think.

Or maybe it is exactly as you present it, Dan, hoping they will change their perspective but not necessarily themselves.

Sorry, I don't mean to make this a "deep" thread, just pondering why we do the things we do sometimes.

Hugs
Ann

somebodysfool · 12-17-2005, 01:55 PM

Hmmm, I talked to some of my long time friends and the only things they could come up with regarding me wanting to see changes in them or others was drinking/drug use and get their butts to church. I would love for them to share my Christian beliefs but I don't try to change them. So maybe it is because we have been around addiction and have been told to change or want people to overcome their addictions that we blurred the "change " line and it became about more than just the addicton. Does that make any sense? It seems that there is so much tied to addictions that you forget which behaviors are tied to it. And then we grab at straws because it seems so many things need to change, lying, cheating, manipulation but if the addiction wasn't there the other things might not be either. I love the differences in personalities and opinion in my friends. They teach me and I teach them. We agree, we disagree, we agree to disagree. But they will never convince me that smoking, abusing alcohol or drugs are not things people should not try to change. J

12-16-2005, 03:40 AM	#1 (permalink)
Ann Sharing Our Light Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: By The Lake Posts: 15,155	Accepting Others For Who They Are You are reading from the book Today's Gift. Because you're not what I would have you be, I blind myself to who, in truth, you are. --Madeleine L'Engle Sometimes we expect far too much of the people around us, and because no one can ever live up to those expectations, we are almost always disappointed. But wouldn't it be better if we just let go, and let people be who they are? Then we'd be able to see them as they are--with all their beauty and goodness in which we take joy, and with all their faults which we can also see in ourselves. When we have put someone up on a pedestal, sculpturing them to fit our needs and desires by smoothing out the rough edges and creating new curves here and there, we cannot see the real person underneath our work. All we see is the illusion we have created. That is denying the person's real identity and is disrespectful. It's much better for our friends and for ourselves if we drop our expectations and illusions, and accept them all just the way they are. What unfair expectations do I have of others? __________________ Somewhere between the gator swamp and the Taj Mahal there is a path, it may be hidden, overgrown or may blend in with the other surroundings, but it is there, it's your path and it is calling you.~Frankly~

12-16-2005, 06:44 AM	#5 (permalink)
somebodysfool Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Windy City Burbs Posts: 100	I hope this comes out the right way... I have always had a little trouble with this concept. My husband would use the phrase "I'll never be accepted" or "why can't you just accept me" and I would respond "if I didn't accept you would I still be here after 20 years?" Or he'd use the "it's who I am" meaning someone who likes to go out and drimk A LOT and I would say " I know you are a social guy, you get energized through activity, but the drinking is not who you are it is what you choose to do" Now I know, that these conversations were all in vain at the time. Since he has been working at becoming sober and learning through AA he hears these words again being replayed in his head and has told me he is getting it now. So as far as acceptance goes do alcoholics see the difference in us accepting the person but not the disease? When we would be in an argument I would turn the acceptance issue back on him because I could easily state a case for feeling unaccepted by him compared to the alcohol and he would stop cold in conversation saying he didn't realize that. I want to be accepted but I don't want him to accpet my controlling his disease. I realize the difference that he can accept me and not my codie behaviors. I need to work at being the best me and that would be minus the ugly codependent part. Which naturally would make me more acceptable. Just like a sober spouse. Am I wrong? I don't mind if you tell me. I guess I just don't want to accept the wife of an active alcoholic lifestyle anymore. Is that different from the person? J __________________ "I never thought my life could be Anything but catastrophe But suddenly I begin to see A bit of good luck for me"

12-16-2005, 09:34 AM	#8 (permalink)
somebodysfool Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Windy City Burbs Posts: 100	Makes sense. I am hearing a lot that the sobering up part has to take place. It helps me to remember that fact. Then a clearer picture of reality sets in. On a clear day you could see forever. HA. At least we've gotten this far. Now the mottos are really starting to make sense too. Like one day at a time. J __________________ "I never thought my life could be Anything but catastrophe But suddenly I begin to see A bit of good luck for me"

12-16-2005, 02:48 PM	#9 (permalink)
nutz doing the inside job Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: planet happy Posts: 545	everything stARTs at home. My love, my hate, my acceptence. "you can't love someone else unless you love yourself" It's not something we all havn't heard. Aplication ain't easy.lol Don't get it confussed with instance gradification. (self serving, ego, your rights, wants.) So...you gotta ask yourself the stupid question when you sober up. DO I LOVE MYSELF ? Again, don't get it confussed with gradifications. CAN I ACCEPT MYSELF ? Mmmm...a dirty rotten alki, addict. (4th step) Will, if I can accept that (me) with all my flaws and imperfections. So....why in the hell would one expect anyone else to be perfect. Oki doki....I'm an alki, but not everything about me is bad. Wow I have assets !!! It's amazing how one finds out things after taking one own inventory. Can I accept that I am not all bad ??? Holy schmoly !!! I'm actually good at certain things or areas. So....I guess everybody else must have assets too. That's hell of concept.lmaf But that's not real problem...we all know that. It's the instant gradification factor, or laziness. Why the hell would I want to work myself....hell that requires work. And certainly we can't pay others to do this god giving reponsiablity. Of course we've all tried it. Pleasing, teasing, paying, demanding of others. It's just seems like the easier softer way and so, so addictive and habit forming. Just couldn't help myself.lol How about you ??? As a man...I guess, I'll have to ask myself this stupid question. How the hell am I going to rule the world if I can't even help myself or rule myself ??? I guess accepting/loving myself so i can truly love and accept others . mmmm....sobering up to recognizing the simplicity of this is a start, i guess. __________________ practice, practice, practice What had been the source of devastation became the seed of a new me.

12-16-2005, 02:50 PM	#10 (permalink)
nutz doing the inside job Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: planet happy Posts: 545	everything stARTs at home. My love, my hate, my acceptence. "you can't love someone else unless you love yourself" It's not something we all havn't heard. Aplication ain't easy.lol Don't get it confussed with instance gradification. (self serving, ego, your rights, wants.) So...you gotta ask yourself the stupid question when you sober up. DO I LOVE MYSELF ? Again, don't get it confussed with gradifications. CAN I ACCEPT MYSELF ? Mmmm...a dirty rotten alki, addict. (4th step) Will, if I can accept that (me) with all my flaws and imperfections. So....why in the hell would one expect anyone else to be perfect. Oki doki....I'm an alki, but not everything about me is bad. Wow I have assets !!! It's amazing how one finds out things after taking one own inventory. Can I accept that I am not all bad ??? Holy schmoly !!! I'm actually good at certain things or areas. So....I guess everybody else must have assets too. That's hell of concept.lmaf But that's not real problem...we all know that. It's the instant gradification factor, or laziness. Why the hell would I want to work on myself....hell that requires work. And certainly we can't pay others to do this god giving reponsiablity. Of course we've all tried it. Pleasing, teasing, paying, demanding of others. It's just seems like the easier softer way and so, so addictive and habit forming. Just couldn't help myself.lol How about you ??? __________________ practice, practice, practice What had been the source of devastation became the seed of a new me.

12-16-2005, 02:52 PM	#11 (permalink)
nutz doing the inside job Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: planet happy Posts: 545	everything stARTs at home. My love, my hate, my acceptence. "you can't love someone else unless you love yourself" It's not something we all havn't heard. Aplication ain't easy.lol Don't get it confussed with instance gradification. (self serving, ego, your rights, wants.) So...you gotta ask yourself the stupid question when you sober up. DO I LOVE MYSELF ? Again, don't get it confussed with gradifications. CAN I ACCEPT MYSELF ? Mmmm...a dirty rotten alki, addict. (4th step) Will, if I can accept that (me) with all my flaws and imperfections. So....why in the hell would one expect anyone else to be perfect. Oki doki....I'm an alki, but not everything about me is bad. Wow I have assets !!! It's amazing how one finds out things after taking one own inventory. Can I accept that I am not all bad ??? Holy schmoly !!! I'm actually good at certain things or areas. So....I guess everybody else must have assets too. That's hell of concept.lmaf But that's not real problem...we all know that. It's the instant gradification factor, or laziness. Why the hell would I want to work on myself....hell that requires work. And certainly we can't pay others to do this god giving reponsiablity. Of course we've all tried it. Pleasing, teasing, paying, demanding of others. It just seems like the easier softer way and so, so addictive and habit forming. Just couldn't help myself.lol How about you ??? __________________ practice, practice, practice What had been the source of devastation became the seed of a new me.

12-16-2005, 02:58 PM	#12 (permalink)
nutz doing the inside job Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: planet happy Posts: 545	Know thy self. Can you truly love yourself , so you can love others. LOVE ONE ANOTHER.....some dude around 2000 years ago tried to keep it simple for us. he shorten the commanments from 10 to 2. He knew we we're freaking insane (complicated).lmaf __________________ practice, practice, practice What had been the source of devastation became the seed of a new me.

12-16-2005, 03:12 PM	#13 (permalink)
dizzyj Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: grand jct, co Posts: 197	Ann, i liked your message, and your right if we didn't expect things of others, maybe just maybe we could expect alot more of ourselves. __________________ dizzyj What happens to the unanswered prayers???

12-16-2005, 05:50 PM	#14 (permalink)
Ann Sharing Our Light Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: By The Lake Posts: 15,155	Okay gang, question. My recovery has taught me that it is not for me to change others, nor for them to change me...we are each responsible for ourselves. But..if a person is our friend or partner (and not using or drinking) why would we want to change them? I'm thinking of a situation where a person initially attracts us as a decent human being, and we become friends and then proceed to notice all the little things we want to change in them (or they want to change in us). Is it normal human instinct to want to change people? I'm just curious to know how you feel about this. Hugs Ann __________________ Somewhere between the gator swamp and the Taj Mahal there is a path, it may be hidden, overgrown or may blend in with the other surroundings, but it is there, it's your path and it is calling you.~Frankly~

12-16-2005, 05:54 PM	#15 (permalink)
Dan Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,753	I don't know if it's so much human instinct to want to change people as it is to want them to see things our way.

12-16-2005, 06:29 PM	#16 (permalink)
Ann Sharing Our Light Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: By The Lake Posts: 15,155	Isn't that much the same thing? To have someone respect or understand what I think, doesn't mean they have to agree with it. But to have them see it my way, is to have them agree, yes? Which may be a change of how they think. Or maybe it is exactly as you present it, Dan, hoping they will change their perspective but not necessarily themselves. Sorry, I don't mean to make this a "deep" thread, just pondering why we do the things we do sometimes. Hugs Ann __________________ Somewhere between the gator swamp and the Taj Mahal there is a path, it may be hidden, overgrown or may blend in with the other surroundings, but it is there, it's your path and it is calling you.~Frankly~

12-17-2005, 01:55 PM	#17 (permalink)
somebodysfool Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Windy City Burbs Posts: 100	Hmmm, I talked to some of my long time friends and the only things they could come up with regarding me wanting to see changes in them or others was drinking/drug use and get their butts to church. I would love for them to share my Christian beliefs but I don't try to change them. So maybe it is because we have been around addiction and have been told to change or want people to overcome their addictions that we blurred the "change " line and it became about more than just the addicton. Does that make any sense? It seems that there is so much tied to addictions that you forget which behaviors are tied to it. And then we grab at straws because it seems so many things need to change, lying, cheating, manipulation but if the addiction wasn't there the other things might not be either. I love the differences in personalities and opinion in my friends. They teach me and I teach them. We agree, we disagree, we agree to disagree. But they will never convince me that smoking, abusing alcohol or drugs are not things people should not try to change. J __________________ "I never thought my life could be Anything but catastrophe But suddenly I begin to see A bit of good luck for me"

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