I am NOT SICK - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

Five · 12-01-2005, 02:47 AM

Sick
I hate that term. Okay we abused alcohol and often felt crazy. Sometimes life got all confused and we messed up. But sick? I still find myself sometimes looking at my thoughts thinking: "oh man I am sick, diseased, dysfunctional". What a stupid waste of time that is. Psychologists call it “meta-cognition”, meaning “thoughts about thoughts”. I can happily say that if anyone calls me sick – in that something about me is rotton and there is something fundamentally wrong with the way I interact with the world, I will poke them in the chest with my finger.

Sick? No: imbalanced, upset, afraid, confused, angry. But not SICK. Be careful of what you call yourself.

**historyteach** · 12-01-2005, 03:46 AM

Five;
I've heard some people refer to alcoholism as dis-ease, when they are uncomfortable with the disease model.
Then again, I've heard others say that the obsession with alcohol, coupled with the compulsion to use, is, indeed a disease.
I have no clue. And in the end, I don't think it matters, as long as you are taking care of the problem.

Shalom!

Dan · 12-01-2005, 03:54 AM

Pejoratives make me want to gag too, Millford.
But then again, when I realize it's all about how I interpret the words, it's really without consequence, unless I decide to take it on board.
The word alcoholic, for example, pisses a lot of people off, apparently...
So, just for today, I am not an alcoholic.
I am just a heavy drinker

Five · 12-01-2005, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by historyteach

Five;
I've heard some people refer to alcoholism as dis-ease, when they are uncomfortable with the disease model.
Then again, I've heard others say that the obsession with alcohol, coupled with the compulsion to use, is, indeed a disease.
I have no clue. And in the end, I don't think it matters, as long as you are taking care of the problem.

Shalom!

I am trying to ditch the "alcoholic" tag completley (well, perhaps not entirely).

I agree with you though, people need to find something that fits there own concept of how they understand themselves.

Five · 12-01-2005, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan

Pejoratives make me want to gag too, Millford.
But then again, when I realize it's all about how I interpret the words, it's really without consequence, unless I decide to take it on board.
The word alcoholic, for example, pisses a lot of people off, apparently...
So, just for today, I am not an alcoholic.
I am just a heavy drinker

I guess it depends on the level of meaning you give them.

Dan · 12-01-2005, 04:02 AM

Maybe.
Or just how much you accept who and what you are, all of it, on any given day.

**historyteach** · 12-01-2005, 04:02 AM

And here's that ole "perspective" rearing its head again!

Shalom!

Five · 12-01-2005, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by historyteach

And here's that ole "perspective" rearing its head again!

Shalom!

Whats the old perspective Teach????

**historyteach** · 12-01-2005, 05:19 AM

Perspective. It's a beautiful thing.

Ask Dan.

Shalom!

tabuki · 12-01-2005, 05:32 AM

Hello Dan,

That perspective may be that we as alcoholics tend to complicate things, and let matters bother us that shouldn't bother us. I know when I finally surrendered to the disease of Alcoholism and I do believe it is a disease, I can consider myself sick. Aren't people with diseases considered sick? It's a simple correlation to me. I know I am working on my sickness on a daily basis. And the blessing of this sickness is that I have experience with it and I can help others work and deal with theirs.
Have a great Day!!!

Five · 12-01-2005, 05:41 AM

"Aren't people with diseases considered sick?"

Yes they are, but there is no evidence to suggest alcoholisim is a disease, infact quite the contarary.

Did you think you were "sick" before you came to AA?

"That perspective may be that we as alcoholics tend to complicate things"

Speak for yourself.

Peace.

**Ann** · 12-01-2005, 05:45 AM

I have heard both addiction and codependency referred to as a "soul sickness" and that describes it well to me. I don't think it matters much what we call it, what matters is what we do about it and how we learn to live life well and on life's terms.

Hugs
Ann

Dan · 12-01-2005, 06:34 AM

Hi tabuki,
Yep, I tend to have the ability to complicate a glass of water.
It's part of my make up, I suppose. I wouldn't say that this behavior is strictly reserved to alcoholics and addicts, but I know that it's part of who I am, in relation to the space I occupy on any given day.

Mill, my dear friend, to be blunt...
The impression you leave with me most days, in this 2D world, is that you not only can complicate a simple glass of water, but also expertly muddy up a rain drop.
That's what's so cool about you.
It's like your brain is an open book.

tabuki · 12-01-2005, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five

"Aren't people with diseases considered sick?"

Yes they are, but there is no evidence to suggest alcoholisim is a disease, infact quite the contarary.

Did you think you were "sick" before you came to AA?

"That perspective may be that we as alcoholics tend to complicate things"

Speak for yourself.

Peace.

I don't think I used the word YOU anywhere in my reply.

Five · 12-01-2005, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabuki

I don't think I used the word YOU anywhere in my reply.

No you did'nt, I was just trying to make a point. Thing is with making a point you can come off as POINTED. A big fat sharp pointed head.

Peace Tab. We have all unique ways of understanding things. I wasnt having a dig at you...just some ideas around alcoholisim. I dont even know where they came from. Bill o bond didnt use terms like sick etc.

Anway, MJ.

tabuki · 12-01-2005, 07:32 AM

Cool, thx for the follow up!!!

May the force, or a good force, of your choice be with you.

Have a great day.

Cap3 · 12-01-2005, 07:56 AM

The greatest enemies of us alcoholics are resentments,envy,frustration and fear.BB,We began to see that the world and its people really dominated us.in that state the wrong doing of others fancied or real had power to actuallt kill.How could we escape?This was our course.We realized that the people who wronged us were perhaps spiritually sick.We asked God to help us show them the same tolerance,pity,and patience that we would cheerfully grant a sick friend.When a person offended we said to ourselves,this is a sick man.How can i be helpful to him?God save me from being angry.Thy will be done.We avoid retaliation......or argument.We wouldnt treat sick people that way...We looked for our own mistakes.Fear was an evil and corroding thread,the fabric of our existance was shot through with it..
By all means if the word sick is offending da ego,dont use it.To each their own.I use it all the time,.For when i think of another as being sick,and,myself sick,and not doing saying hurtful thigs on purpose,mean-ness,then my heart is more open to both them and myself.I become more understanding of folks.I become more willing to accept/tolearte others.I become more willing to change,and work in ,my own,recovery.
Now i dont know about you,but yes there was something fundamentally wrong with me with the way i interacted with the world,before comming to recovery rooms..There was a time i couldnt face the world without being drunk.Really,I could care less what folks or myself calls me,whats important to me,is that, there is a solution,there,is hope,this is where my focus is on,and that i can change,and grow.I no longer have to live the way i once did.Live and let live,Acceptance,tolerance of others.And if,i've handed contol of my thoughts and feelings to others,than im the problem not them.I can take it back,and pray for them.This is the action that helps us both.
Thanks for letting me share,
God Bless,and take care!!!!!

Five · 12-01-2005, 08:04 AM

"By all means if the word sick is offending da ego"

Ahhh I know what you mean by this Cap.

Do you think its my pride thats being hurt?

Well...okay, maybe it is. Proud that I dont use horrific terms to label myself, and horrific terms to label other people.

If thats what Pride is, they should bottle it and sell it.

bahookie · 12-01-2005, 08:42 AM

Hey

I've got a bit of trouble with the sick label.

1) if my partner isn't sick then the way she acts, talks and obviously thinks is sometimes sheer badness - if I didn't believe there was some kind of imbalance in her head that makes her act this way I'd be out the door and running down the lane with a big trail of dust behind me.

2) if she is sick then, well, emmmm. I'm just a bad, heartless bitch who is running out of patience.

I'd like to think it's a sickness, but I've not made my mind up.

J
xxx

Cap3 · 12-01-2005, 08:48 AM

Hi Five,,{ive always wanted to say this since i first saw your name...smile...}
Do i think its your pride that is being hurt?
Do i know you?
I do know that its only ego,that gets offened.Its the only thing in a person,that will feel offended...ahe,people,places and things eh?..Step One.
Pride goes before da fall,this is my belief.When i think how i use to be so very full of pride,man im heading for the toliet,now.I stomped on folks,etc,,all in the name of my pride.So,im learning self-love.In self-loving myself,im then able to pass this on to others.Love.Loving them too.I give to others ALL that im feeling about myself.
Rule 62,dont take yourself or others so dam seriously.This too helps me...smile....

Five · 12-01-2005, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cap3

Hi Five,,{ive always wanted to say this since i first saw your name...smile...}
Do i think its your pride that is being hurt?
Do i know you?
I do know that its only ego,that gets offened.Its the only thing in a person,that will feel offended...ahe,people,places and things eh?..Step One.
Pride goes before da fall,this is my belief.When i think how i use to be so very full of pride,man im heading for the toliet,now.I stomped on folks,etc,,all in the name of my pride.So,im learning self-love.In self-loving myself,im then able to pass this on to others.Love.Loving them too.I give to others ALL that im feeling about myself.
Rule 62,dont take yourself or others so dam seriously.This too helps me...smile....

You have different concept of pride. I never really stomped on people. I might have been demanding and super senstitive - but I wasnt a great stomper.

I can understand the term "sick" in someplaces - i.e for chronic, near death alcoholisim. That is real SICK. But as a personality trait, which lingers in myself or others - I just see that as quietly demented.

eire rose · 12-01-2005, 09:03 AM

Hello Five,

You hit the nail on the head for me, I just had an issue at an aa meeting last night where I felt that certain people had me labeled as being "sick", all this talk of being sick and some are sicker than others. I am so angry this morning I can barely type.

My take on it is by calling yourself sick we are then victims. I am not sick in the slightest. I have a great job, physically fit, spiritual and healthly. Maybe unbalanced in certain areas and have issues with alcohol but does everyone not have some bull going on ?? My DOC just happens to be something that can be visable, how many people self medicate with other things, as a recovering alcoholic I and others have the opportunity to deal with this issue, we made a choice concious or not to stop the behaviour, thats pretty healthy in my book.

To be spiritualy void as being sick; for me I have always had some connection to a HP, that is what led me to this point in my life, my journey, now its time to get sober thats all, no sickness in that, just the next thing to do.

I guess I am rambling a bit but this sickness thing really irked me last night. This guy at the meeting has 12 yrs sober an people say he is sick, OK, well maybe he is not sick but that is how he lives his life, his vision, his way of being, acceptance might be more appropriate rather than the label of being sick. I really hate the labels alcoholic, sick etc.. I am getting carried away here so I'll end this post.

Anyway, Five I agree 100% with you,

Love Rose

Five · 12-01-2005, 09:06 AM

has anyone missed my glaring contradiction. Its right there. Read back.

First one to spot it gets a mineral water on the house. Begins with "D".

Just when I thought I was onto something.

Five · 12-01-2005, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eire rose

Hello Five,

You hit the nail on the head for me, I just had an issue at an aa meeting last night where I felt that certain people had me labeled as being "sick", all this talk of being sick and some are sicker than others. I am so angry this morning I can barely type.

My take on it is by calling yourself sick we are then victims. I am not sick in the slightest. I have a great job, physically fit, spiritual and healthly. Maybe unbalanced in certain areas and have issues with alcohol but does everyone not have some bull going on ?? My DOC just happens to be something that can be visable, how many people self medicate with other things, as a recovering alcoholic I and others have the opportunity to deal with this issue, we made a choice concious or not to stop the behaviour, thats pretty healthy in my book.

To be spiritualy void as being sick; for me I have always had some connection to a HP, that is what led me to this point in my life, my journey, now its time to get sober thats all, no sickness in that, just the next thing to do.

I guess I am rambling a bit but this sickness thing really irked me last night. This guy at the meeting has 12 yrs sober an people say he is sick, OK, well maybe he is not sick but that is how he lives his life, his vision, his way of being, acceptance might be more appropriate rather than the label of being sick. I really hate the labels alcoholic, sick etc.. I am getting carried away here so I'll end this post.

Anyway, Five I agree 100% with you,

Love Rose

You've just articulated my experience, almost entirely, with AA.

Dont let the sickies get you down. Your HP sounds as if he knows the score.

Dan · 12-01-2005, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five

Just when I thought I was onto something.

Don't you hate it when that happens? One minute, you feel enlightened, and the next... Poof. Out the window it goes...

I only drink San Pellegrino.
Perrier, if that's all you can manage.

12-01-2005, 02:47 AM	#1 (permalink)
Five Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,232	I am NOT SICK Sick I hate that term. Okay we abused alcohol and often felt crazy. Sometimes life got all confused and we messed up. But sick? I still find myself sometimes looking at my thoughts thinking: "oh man I am sick, diseased, dysfunctional". What a stupid waste of time that is. Psychologists call it “meta-cognition”, meaning “thoughts about thoughts”. I can happily say that if anyone calls me sick – in that something about me is rotton and there is something fundamentally wrong with the way I interact with the world, I will poke them in the chest with my finger. Sick? No: imbalanced, upset, afraid, confused, angry. But not SICK. Be careful of what you call yourself.

12-01-2005, 03:46 AM	#2 (permalink)
historyteach To Life! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: centered again Posts: 8,071	Five; I've heard some people refer to alcoholism as dis-ease, when they are uncomfortable with the disease model. Then again, I've heard others say that the obsession with alcohol, coupled with the compulsion to use, is, indeed a disease. I have no clue. And in the end, I don't think it matters, as long as you are taking care of the problem. Shalom! __________________

12-01-2005, 04:02 AM	#7 (permalink)
historyteach To Life! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: centered again Posts: 8,071	And here's that ole "perspective" rearing its head again! Shalom! __________________

12-01-2005, 05:19 AM	#9 (permalink)
historyteach To Life! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: centered again Posts: 8,071	Perspective. It's a beautiful thing. Ask Dan. Shalom! __________________

12-01-2005, 05:32 AM	#10 (permalink)
tabuki Service is a Key Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Alliance, Oh Posts: 25	Hello Dan, That perspective may be that we as alcoholics tend to complicate things, and let matters bother us that shouldn't bother us. I know when I finally surrendered to the disease of Alcoholism and I do believe it is a disease, I can consider myself sick. Aren't people with diseases considered sick? It's a simple correlation to me. I know I am working on my sickness on a daily basis. And the blessing of this sickness is that I have experience with it and I can help others work and deal with theirs. Have a great Day!!! __________________ Don't re-invent the wheel, it's been around too long and it works!!!!! AA is the way!!!

12-01-2005, 03:54 AM	#3 (permalink)
Dan Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,753	Pejoratives make me want to gag too, Millford. But then again, when I realize it's all about how I interpret the words, it's really without consequence, unless I decide to take it on board. The word alcoholic, for example, pisses a lot of people off, apparently... So, just for today, I am not an alcoholic. I am just a heavy drinker

12-01-2005, 04:02 AM	#6 (permalink)
Dan Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,753	Maybe. Or just how much you accept who and what you are, all of it, on any given day.

12-01-2005, 05:41 AM	#11 (permalink)
Five Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,232	"Aren't people with diseases considered sick?" Yes they are, but there is no evidence to suggest alcoholisim is a disease, infact quite the contarary. Did you think you were "sick" before you came to AA? "That perspective may be that we as alcoholics tend to complicate things" Speak for yourself. Peace.

12-01-2005, 05:45 AM	#12 (permalink)
Ann Sharing Our Light Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: By The Lake Posts: 15,155	I have heard both addiction and codependency referred to as a "soul sickness" and that describes it well to me. I don't think it matters much what we call it, what matters is what we do about it and how we learn to live life well and on life's terms. Hugs Ann __________________ Somewhere between the gator swamp and the Taj Mahal there is a path, it may be hidden, overgrown or may blend in with the other surroundings, but it is there, it's your path and it is calling you.~Frankly~

12-01-2005, 06:34 AM	#13 (permalink)
Dan Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,753	Hi tabuki, Yep, I tend to have the ability to complicate a glass of water. It's part of my make up, I suppose. I wouldn't say that this behavior is strictly reserved to alcoholics and addicts, but I know that it's part of who I am, in relation to the space I occupy on any given day. Mill, my dear friend, to be blunt... The impression you leave with me most days, in this 2D world, is that you not only can complicate a simple glass of water, but also expertly muddy up a rain drop. That's what's so cool about you. It's like your brain is an open book.

12-01-2005, 07:32 AM	#16 (permalink)
tabuki Service is a Key Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Alliance, Oh Posts: 25	Cool, thx for the follow up!!! May the force, or a good force, of your choice be with you. Have a great day. __________________ Don't re-invent the wheel, it's been around too long and it works!!!!! AA is the way!!!

12-01-2005, 07:56 AM	#17 (permalink)
Cap3 Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 732	The greatest enemies of us alcoholics are resentments,envy,frustration and fear.BB,We began to see that the world and its people really dominated us.in that state the wrong doing of others fancied or real had power to actuallt kill.How could we escape?This was our course.We realized that the people who wronged us were perhaps spiritually sick.We asked God to help us show them the same tolerance,pity,and patience that we would cheerfully grant a sick friend.When a person offended we said to ourselves,this is a sick man.How can i be helpful to him?God save me from being angry.Thy will be done.We avoid retaliation......or argument.We wouldnt treat sick people that way...We looked for our own mistakes.Fear was an evil and corroding thread,the fabric of our existance was shot through with it.. By all means if the word sick is offending da ego,dont use it.To each their own.I use it all the time,.For when i think of another as being sick,and,myself sick,and not doing saying hurtful thigs on purpose,mean-ness,then my heart is more open to both them and myself.I become more understanding of folks.I become more willing to accept/tolearte others.I become more willing to change,and work in ,my own,recovery. Now i dont know about you,but yes there was something fundamentally wrong with me with the way i interacted with the world,before comming to recovery rooms..There was a time i couldnt face the world without being drunk.Really,I could care less what folks or myself calls me,whats important to me,is that, there is a solution,there,is hope,this is where my focus is on,and that i can change,and grow.I no longer have to live the way i once did.Live and let live,Acceptance,tolerance of others.And if,i've handed contol of my thoughts and feelings to others,than im the problem not them.I can take it back,and pray for them.This is the action that helps us both. Thanks for letting me share, God Bless,and take care!!!!!

12-01-2005, 08:04 AM	#18 (permalink)
Five Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,232	"By all means if the word sick is offending da ego" Ahhh I know what you mean by this Cap. Do you think its my pride thats being hurt? Well...okay, maybe it is. Proud that I dont use horrific terms to label myself, and horrific terms to label other people. If thats what Pride is, they should bottle it and sell it.

12-01-2005, 08:42 AM	#19 (permalink)
bahookie Binge poster Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Scotland Posts: 559	Hey I've got a bit of trouble with the sick label. 1) if my partner isn't sick then the way she acts, talks and obviously thinks is sometimes sheer badness - if I didn't believe there was some kind of imbalance in her head that makes her act this way I'd be out the door and running down the lane with a big trail of dust behind me. 2) if she is sick then, well, emmmm. I'm just a bad, heartless bitch who is running out of patience. I'd like to think it's a sickness, but I've not made my mind up. J xxx

12-01-2005, 08:48 AM	#20 (permalink)
Cap3 Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 732	Hi Five,,{ive always wanted to say this since i first saw your name...smile...} Do i think its your pride that is being hurt? Do i know you? I do know that its only ego,that gets offened.Its the only thing in a person,that will feel offended...ahe,people,places and things eh?..Step One. Pride goes before da fall,this is my belief.When i think how i use to be so very full of pride,man im heading for the toliet,now.I stomped on folks,etc,,all in the name of my pride.So,im learning self-love.In self-loving myself,im then able to pass this on to others.Love.Loving them too.I give to others ALL that im feeling about myself. Rule 62,dont take yourself or others so dam seriously.This too helps me...smile....

12-01-2005, 09:03 AM	#22 (permalink)
eire rose Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: QUEENS, NY Posts: 200	Hello Five, You hit the nail on the head for me, I just had an issue at an aa meeting last night where I felt that certain people had me labeled as being "sick", all this talk of being sick and some are sicker than others. I am so angry this morning I can barely type. My take on it is by calling yourself sick we are then victims. I am not sick in the slightest. I have a great job, physically fit, spiritual and healthly. Maybe unbalanced in certain areas and have issues with alcohol but does everyone not have some bull going on ?? My DOC just happens to be something that can be visable, how many people self medicate with other things, as a recovering alcoholic I and others have the opportunity to deal with this issue, we made a choice concious or not to stop the behaviour, thats pretty healthy in my book. To be spiritualy void as being sick; for me I have always had some connection to a HP, that is what led me to this point in my life, my journey, now its time to get sober thats all, no sickness in that, just the next thing to do. I guess I am rambling a bit but this sickness thing really irked me last night. This guy at the meeting has 12 yrs sober an people say he is sick, OK, well maybe he is not sick but that is how he lives his life, his vision, his way of being, acceptance might be more appropriate rather than the label of being sick. I really hate the labels alcoholic, sick etc.. I am getting carried away here so I'll end this post. Anyway, Five I agree 100% with you, Love Rose

12-01-2005, 09:06 AM	#23 (permalink)
Five Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,232	has anyone missed my glaring contradiction. Its right there. Read back. First one to spot it gets a mineral water on the house. Begins with "D". Just when I thought I was onto something.