Where did 'awful' come from?

[equus]

I've been working really hard on keeping things in perspective, rather than blowing them up out of proportion. It's more productive for me to see things within a larger scale than feel overwhelmed by them.

I got this CBT questionaire emailed to me yesterday and I took it.
CBT questionaire - about beliefs
I found that I scored 1,2, or 3, on most irrational beliefs with only 2 of them where I got a clean bill of health. There were also only one or two where any more than a minor problem would be expected.

What surprised me was that I was quite happy about that - I didn't want to score zero in all of them even if that meant 'apparently' I had less beliefs likely to cause me problems.

WHY?
I think deep inside it's an awareness that behaviours/beliefs rarely become common (ie as with evolution, survive natural selection) unless they serve some purpose. That's not to say the belief is correct or even always helpful but to become spread across cultures and communities, to survive generations, I think it must serve a purpose.

I'm an aitheist, yet I can be aware that religious belief may well have made the world look less frightening, given hope where without it there would be none and provided a sense of love - hell these are valuable!! I'm careful as an aitheist to be aware of these needs without thinking I'm immune, I sometimes like to read religious authors and have found I've gained lots without needing a belief in god.

So back to rational/irrational responses, where did the 'awful' come from? Where did those globally common irrational beliefs fit within our needs?

Before I understand that I quite like the smallish quantity I'm left with, I'm glad they're there.

[Millwallj]

i will have a look at this thread when i get time and give you my thoughts. not got time at the mo.

[equus]

Hey Mill - give the quetionaire a go. It's good old fashioned psychometrics but pretty damn cool, enough questions to get the job done!

[Millwallj]

As far as I am aware, our beliefs - maybe our overall beliefs - are a product largely of environment. Irrational beliefs to us might well be rational to a naked tribe in Africa.

I think we do have a semi choice though in certain beliefs and we learn to have interpretations of certain events. We learn beliefs, through evidence available. I have learned all my "maladaptive beliefs" through years of interpretating the world by a set of rigid rules that are part, largely, of my personality (biology????) formed when i was a nipper. Its so complex eq that really i have no idea. all i know is that i have all of these beliefs (and attitudes, values, assumptions - advanced cbt he he) and some are a real hinderance to me and stop me flowing with nature. THey are, in the most, anti nature, anti "me". They lock me into bad phisological states (depression, anxiety) and lead to unhealthy behaviour.

Good question, made me think.

[bartender129]

Originally Posted by Millwallj

As far as I am aware, our beliefs - maybe our overall beliefs - are a product largely of environment.

I think we do have a semi choice though in certain beliefs and we learn to have interpretations of certain events.

Our beliefs are not a product of the environment, but rather our interpretation of it. The trick is to examine those interpretations, dispute the ones that are unhealthy and focus on the ones that will lead to healthy / rational choices.

That is kind of the essence of CBT and identifying thinking patterns. The important thing is to remember that beliefs, thoughts and feelings are choices.

[equus]

That is kind of the essence of CBT and identifying thinking patterns. The important thing is to remember that beliefs, thoughts and feelings are choices.

I'm very keen on CBT, but I don't coubt it will be polished over time and will currently hold it's own mistaken thinking. I suppose the above is why partly I was happy not to have results that were 'too' clean. I want to read more, learn more, and use it more but I don't want 'it' to start directing which of my beliefs are correct or incorrect.

An example would be:

Everyone needs to depend on someone stronger than themselves.

I have issues with our western society's emphasis on independence - there are many successful cultures that simply don't have this as an aim, instead society is far more interdependent. It takes alot of thinking to test that concept out but I've found it to be more functional in my life. I've learned I do depend on others, I did when I was born and I still do. I type on a keyboard invented by others, connected to a computer I was taught to use by others, to talk to others here who know things I don't.

Even if I could feed myself and take care of basic needs I'm not sure that means I could live in isolation from others.

It's more functional for me to learn by asking questions from others who have a stronger knowledge of what I with to learn. In many ways my ability to seek out information from others increases my 'apparent' independence.

That's one example but it contains some of what I'm questioning - which is what function did the old beliefs serve?

CBT Has the word behaviourism in it - so it's reasonable that it should be expected to follow behavioural theory which surrounds the function of our internal and external behaviour. Something that never gets rewarded becomes extinct - extinction (removing the reinforcer) is a powerful behavioural tool for change.

My question isn't about whether or not CBT works - I believe it does and could answer that competantly if a little clumsy at times. My question is much simpler - what function did these well researched, held by many, internationally valid irrational beliefs serve?

[bartender129]

Originally Posted by equus

I'm very keen on CBT, but I don't coubt it will be polished over time and will currently hold it's own mistaken thinking. I suppose the above is why partly I was happy not to have results that were 'too' clean. I want to read more, learn more, and use it more but I don't want 'it' to start directing which of my beliefs are correct or incorrect.

“It� has no ability to direct your thinking. “It� is a set of tools to use to examine your thinking for yourself and determine what is rational / irrational or healthy / unhealthy.

As to your example of

Everyone needs to depend on someone stronger than themselves.

Be careful of absolute thoughts like need. Making something an absolute often times leads to emotional upsets if something strays from the absolute.

In what you described, it seems more like cooperation and choosing to use the resources available to you, rather than depending on others.

However, if choosing to be dependent is a thought you have examined and concluded to be productive and useful, then that is rational for you.

These tools do not tell you how to think, they merely assist in examining your own thinking for yourself and focus on those thoughts that lead you to act in your own best interest.

[Millwallj]

I personally like "adaptive" and "nonadaptive".

[Millwallj]

Well said bartender.

CBT is there when I need it. If I am struggling with something, CBT is just a tool to move me forward.

[equus]

My question was more where the behaviour of absolute thinking comes from and what purpose does it serve to be seen on such a large scale.

In other words the 'absolute thinking' must serve some purpose to have lasted so long.

I understand what you say bartender that it isn't about single examples, nor is it about being taught how to think. My question surrounds what function the irrational/absolute/awfulising thinking plays - after all wouldn't you agree it has survived in plenty of people for plenty of years? From a behavioural perspective that would be unlikely if it was totally non-functioning.

My point being that I can't easily see the function not that I can; but it's illogical to conclude that it has no function due to it's prevalence.