AA's big dirty secret.....

[paul singer]

What are your opinions about the explosion of Anti depressants in the last few years. Is it sobriety or not. Should this be considered time or not, Is this an easier softer way. why is it that if half the people in the rooms are on it, yet no one speaks of it. Do they know deep down that it's wrong ...or is it right. I was wondering because I have very strong opinions about this topic, and It seems like every day more people are being put on anti dpessants. Some times it feels like most of the people in the meeting are on medication. Especially if I am at a speaker disscussion meeting. When I checked in the big book the answer seemed clear, yet I seem to be getting a different message in some of the meetings I attend. I know this is a touchy subject, but I know I could have never had a spiritual experiance on medication. Lately I have noticed when I disscuss G-D or the Steps or the Bigbook with fellow AAers they back away. When I ask these same people about medication an overwhelming percentage admit they are on the pill.
Will AA surive this explosion or will this G-D givin program prevail?

[wonderboy75]

Anti depressants are drugs, pharmaceutical companies are dealers.
Harsh reality.
Pzifer is one of the biggest companies in the world, right?
Did you hear about the Codex bill?
Pharmaceutical companies are about to lead congress into passing a bill that will make all herbal remedies and vitamins...illegal.
There will only be genetically reproduced vitamins...then the price gets jacked up.
And those companies have the power to hide this from the public. There buying the media's silence. Serious B.S.

And I feel people should talk about G-D more often in here or out there or wherever.

A drug is a drug.

Talk to you later.

[Ann]

Properly prescribed and under the care of a doctor, anti-depressants have saved more than one alcoholic's life.

You're new here, Paul Singer, and welcome, but please know that the medical advice given by a physician to a patient, alcoholic or otherwise, is not for you or I to criticize here.

We've had this same conversation here before, and I believe the conclusion was work what works for you, but don't play physician with anyone else. It's not for us to judge another person's medical care, nor for us to tell them to ignore what their doctor advises.

Hugs
Ann

[mizeeyore]

Big Dirty Secret? Tell me, would you say that folks in AA that have severe allergies should never take Claritin? Does this mean they're not sober? Try again. Antidepressants are prescribed for people who are chemically deficient in certain neurotransmitters. It's a biological issue, not an abuse-for-entertainment issue. I'm hypo-thyroid, which also contributes to depression. Would you have me not take my thyroid meds? I'm sorry, but depression can be biologically based, and is not truthfully categorized as some sort of personal failure or weakness or personality defect. If you went to de-tox and received medical assistance for the miserable symptoms of initial sobriety, wouldn't that be wrong also, not "true" sobriety? Sorry, but I don't see where anti-depressants are some sort of substance that is abuse-prone and mind-altering in such a way as to cause a person to "hit bottom" and require them to take The Steps to recover from. No, anti-depressants aren't some "high" that folks are missing out on because they're being "brave" and "toughing it out". If you resent the use of anti-depressants, or think it's wrong because it's just a "legal high", think again.

[wonderboy75]

People will argue about this like religion or politics.
No one wins.

No one may win, but there is a chance that someone will lose if they go off their medication. It's not a good subject to play around with. There are people with dual diagnosis that have to treat both illnesses at the same time. It's not a black and white issue.

[CAPTAINZING2000]

It's only when we take a drug or drink to extremes. I do believe, some doctors don't fully understand how we addicts and alkies think.
I've taken pain medicine since I've been sober. I followed the directions threw the empty bottle away when, I was done.

It's not the drug or the drink it's the human that's flawed here. We're insane in the membrane.
The funniest thing I heard coming into AA was a guy goes to the bar and it's all you can drink $5.00. The drunk says, I'll take two.

I'm disturbed by the commercials on tv saying see if the purple pill is right for you. Some of these commercials haven't even mentioned what the pill was for I'm thinking what the F#ck is that all about. I'm more concerned with the side effects. When, it says, I can't have sex while taking this. Bag it, I'll do w/o it.

[exzim]

When I was new to AA and sobriety a friend and I went to a meeting where an Old Timer brought up this subject. He was told all of us newcomers that it is not possible to be on ANY kind of drugs and be truly sober. My friend went off all her medications (she was bipolar). She committed suicide a week later.

Maggie

[minnie]

And there endeth the lesson.....

[Andy F]

I am sometimes a little jealous of some people and their anti-depressants.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by paul singer

Some times it feels like most of the people in the meeting are on medication.

Hi Paul, and welcome.
How in heck can you tell someone is on an anti-depressant?

Anyway, I'll venture a guess that had there been a body of research on serotonin uptake readily available back in the Thirties, and anti-depressants to treat depression and other conditions of the mind, AA could probably have boasted of an even higher success rate in those early days.

Life on anti-depressants is no cake walk for a lot of us, by the way.
But it's an improvement that seems to allow a fair chance at maintaining sobriety, among other things.

[paul singer]

Ok, Now for the truth and my experiance.. "any mood or mind altering substance". You do'nt get more clarity than that "read the book". If you are taking anti-depresants so are not sober period. All this "all is good " attitude is complete and utter bullshit, and it is not I repeat not AA. this kinder gentler AA is Not AA at all. If you are on medication please respect the traditions and be honest with your time and your self take that nonsense to your therapist who is obviouslly too busy to really work with you. Isn't that why he gave you the meds in the first place. It's cheaper . "if a pill could have solved our problem we would have taken it" also in the bookl "but we suffer from a spiritual illness" one that can only be cured through a "spiritual remady".
If your problems are other than alcohol..this program may not be for you. since you have clearly identified yourselves as having a prblem with depression. Please go to depression Ananomous or double trouble. I'm here to save my life and carry a message not listen to you dump. Why are you disrespecting AA. This is a place and program of a "spirtitual remedy" not a "medical remedy"..perrhaphs double trouble is better suited for you ANN..
AA is not a catch all.
It's the same thing in my area that white professional that never drank come to AA with there problems because NA is to Ghetto for them... That's just wrong and Racist.
AA is for people that suffer from Alchol. As far as someone going off there meds and commiting suicide. that's 100% bullshit.. I'm more concerned about the Alcoholic that goes back to a drink and kills someone or himself because he came to AA for a Message and got the stupid insipid whines of a "non alcholic on prozac"
"If you are willing to go to any lenghts" "Could and would if HE were sought"

Personally I don't understand the "truth" according to Paul being the end-all, and I'm not going to debate it.

Suicide is not bullshit, period.

Posting your thoughts is fine, asking for others to do the same is fine. Attacking others for replying is unacceptable.

This is the end of this thread.

[KelKel]

Maggie thank you for sharing about your friend.....
Paul that was just a plain ol' lack of knowledge remark.
I know from personal experience and more than a few suicide attempts that there is nothing BS about treating mental illness and alcoholism... they both need to be addressed.... I hope you choose to use a little more constraint when making those sort of statements.... they just aren't helpful to us folks in recovery and that is what this site is here for... we support and help eachother in this journey, we do not always agree but we do try to respect one another and our approaches to getting clean & sober.




"AA is for people that suffer from Alchol. As far as someone going off there meds and commiting suicide. that's 100% bullshit.. I'm more concerned about the Alcoholic that goes back to a drink and kills someone or himself because he came to AA for a Message and got the stupid insipid whines of a "non alcholic on prozac"" -Paul