Redmayne

For me life, including recovering from my addiction to alcohol, is about survival.

Two, well tested lessons I've learnt in that survival process and will continue to use are,

1. Rely on yourself.

2. Anything that contradicts logic and experience should be abandoned.

Enhanced by developing a determined, uncompromising or intimidating, which is the definition of a 'bad ass' attitude, when and were necessary. None more than in survival...

I'd suggest that these qualities will stand anyone, good both in life and recovery, for anything less is open to interpretation and leaves room for failure ...

And failure, as we know from alcohol or drug addiction, at the very least runs the risk of being fatal.

Gottalife

I'm not so sure I can follow. I rely on the God of my understanding, having proven somewhat unreliable on my own account. Further, my experience seems to contradict logic at times, so I'm a bit conflicted there too.

Redmayne

Oh, there's nothing wrong in adding to your own self reliance and experience and believing in the God of your understanding, or what the Stoics term, Divine Providence. In fact I recommend it, I do it all the time...

Boleo

Pretty much matches my own experience, not to mention 12 step recovery in general. Can't say as one single thing that I tried using self reliance, logic or reason helped me in my recovery. In fact, they only served as red-herrings on the path to my recovery.

I am one of those alcoholics that is beyond human aid. I had to let go of all my old ideas, surrender my so-called self reliance and learn to trust a whole bunch of paradox's before I started to get some emotional sobriety into my life.

I had to suffer to get well.
I had to surrender to win.
I had to give it away to keep it.
I had to die to be reborn.

(The Professor and the Paradox - BB 2nd Edition)

Redmayne

Further clarification of the points raised regarding God, and my belief in the God of my understanding and other philosophies that have played a constructive part in my recovery, can be found on the 'Stories of recovery' forum under the post,'Becoming my true self...'

I hope both these threads help others, as much as the things described in them help me...

'As long as time and space exist I hope I to may exist, to dispel the misery of others...' a Buddhist prayer.

Boleo

"However, if something contradicts logic but not experience, we should rely on experience rather than logic when such experience also corresponds to what the wise have to say."
(Kalama Sutta)

silentrun

Two, well tested lessons I've learnt in that survival process and will continue to use are,

1. Rely on yourself.

2. Anything that contradicts logic and experience should be abandoned.


I can absolutely agree with that. In order for me to rely on myself I also need to be able to trust myself. I would also add:
3. Actions have consequences.

Redmayne

An excellent addition to my thread,I like to, the point of having all the answers yet not knowing any of the questions, thank you v. much

As always, you've made me smile ...great pics.

Redmayne

I'd also add, as a lesson in survival, that I'm always grateful to those who disturb me, as they make me choose the person I don't want to be.

This is particularly prevalent in instances where I get the impression that, 'the lunatics are running the asylum,' nothing will relieve me or them of our presence in their company faster.

A classic example of 'cause and effect'.

Boleo

I know what you mean. It amazes me how many fallacies and misconceptions that hear around recovery circles.

silentrun

Much to my horror sometimes those people serve as a mirror of sorts. I think "holy crap is that how I look when I do that?" I can't see myself. Sometimes they hit a weak spot of mine. Like when they hit me right in the "don't belong" or the "you don't know anything". That's good too because then I know exactly where the pain is coming from and I can repair it. I find punches go right through me now. It's been awhile since anyone has found a soft spot. So bless their dark hearts.

silentrun

Well then, it's been my experience that logic trumps experience.

Boleo

Mirages are an experience. The Wise say don't trust them.

silentrun

Serious question for you (or anyone). How do you determine who the wise are?

esinger

"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool."
William Shakespeare

silentrun

NICE!! I was thinking of this one
Masquerading as a man with a reason
My charade is the event of the season
And if I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know


Kansas

Redmayne

Michael's Law, with a slight acknowledgement to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle,

' If you have examined everything that's logical,

And all you are left with is the illogical,

Then that to must have it's own logic,

However odd or bizarre it appears....'

Experience will tell you the truth of this law.

Redmayne

Returning to the subject of this thread, and putting aside light hearted comments, like,'death is nature's way of telling you top slow down.'

For anyone who, like me suffered either alcohol or drug addiction, in recovery, survival is paramount,whatever path or program you choose. Not least as the consequences of not doing so are at least, likely to and often do prove fatal.

From personal and that of others,some of whom are no longer with us, I know only to well, the truth of this statement.

So, if anyone has any constructive comment or criticism to offer on the subject of survival relative to this thread, I'd certainly welcome it and offer my thanks in anticipation.

esinger

I guess without the constant vigilance in the pursuit of survival all else is moot point. I also think it is important to step back and find contentment and enjoyment out of life otherwise we've wasted the short period of time we have struggling and fighting. What is the point of constantly struggling in pursuit of recovery if you never recover? Isn't that the point?
Complacency obviously is dangerous but if there is no light at the end of the tunnel then what's the point? For me I know that if I slip back to the perceived comfort of constant intoxication, I know, I will not survive. That to me is very simple logic. Pretty obvious choice in my mind and that's it. That being said, it took a long time to come to that conclusion. I have had several in my life that this choice was not so obvious and did not, or chose not to survive.

Boleo

I have gone out of my way to have lengthy discussions with hundreds of good-old-timers (30+ years experience).

Never met even one of them that would agree with the OP of this thread.