Stoicism and 'The Serenity Prayer'.
Redmayne
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Manchester, England, UK.
Posts: 1,543
Stoicism and 'The Serenity Prayer'.
In pursing my efforts to make spiritual progress. I've recently turned my attention to familiarising myself with Stoic philosophy, developed many years ago in Greek and Roman times.
To my delight, as has been pointed out in an article I read. Of which, to my delight, the wording of 'The Serenity Prayer' is a good example,
'God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, ( the weather, the economy or other people)
The courage to change the things I can, (our own thoughts and beliefs by way of focussing our attention one our own thoughts and beliefs)
And the wisdom to know the difference.' (which in the light of what I've just written, I'd hope would be self explanatory.)
This helps me, on a daily basis to accept that I suffer from the disease/illness of alcoholism, it doesn't really matter whether you drank yourself into it, or , as in the case of a small number of people like me, were born with it.
Together with the fact that by way of focussing my own energy and beliefs, I can and have, in my case with the belief in the God of my understanding. Who may not be yours or anyone else's God, but is personal to me. Exercise enough control over my desire to drink alcohol, that in truth, whilst I accept it exists in society, plays no significant part in mylife. Whereas at one time it was at the core of it!
Obviously there is much more to Stoic philosophy than this, an example of which is in Marcus Aurelius book 'Meditations', but I think the example I've given in the wording of 'The Serenity Prayer' is a good place for me or anyone in recovery to start.
To my delight, as has been pointed out in an article I read. Of which, to my delight, the wording of 'The Serenity Prayer' is a good example,
'God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, ( the weather, the economy or other people)
The courage to change the things I can, (our own thoughts and beliefs by way of focussing our attention one our own thoughts and beliefs)
And the wisdom to know the difference.' (which in the light of what I've just written, I'd hope would be self explanatory.)
This helps me, on a daily basis to accept that I suffer from the disease/illness of alcoholism, it doesn't really matter whether you drank yourself into it, or , as in the case of a small number of people like me, were born with it.
Together with the fact that by way of focussing my own energy and beliefs, I can and have, in my case with the belief in the God of my understanding. Who may not be yours or anyone else's God, but is personal to me. Exercise enough control over my desire to drink alcohol, that in truth, whilst I accept it exists in society, plays no significant part in mylife. Whereas at one time it was at the core of it!
Obviously there is much more to Stoic philosophy than this, an example of which is in Marcus Aurelius book 'Meditations', but I think the example I've given in the wording of 'The Serenity Prayer' is a good place for me or anyone in recovery to start.
Redmayne
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Manchester, England, UK.
Posts: 1,543
With all due respect...
With all due respect to you,my thread was directed at the Stoic philosophy and it's relevance to, 'The Serenity Prayer'. Done in the spirit of sharing experience, strength and hope, to help us all.
Not as a platform to be used to dissect, either one of them, presumably done to display, yours others academic or lack of it, as the case may be prowess.
This site is called the Sober Recovery Community and as I've always understood it, if you want to discuss matters on an academic level I suggest you visit together with those already on them, either,' How people use Stoic philosophy today' or ' Stoicism today', which might better suit your purposes...rather than using this thread for your own agenda. Which has obviously nothing to do with recovery or sobriety...making it irrelevant to the nature of this site and those it serves.
Not as a platform to be used to dissect, either one of them, presumably done to display, yours others academic or lack of it, as the case may be prowess.
This site is called the Sober Recovery Community and as I've always understood it, if you want to discuss matters on an academic level I suggest you visit together with those already on them, either,' How people use Stoic philosophy today' or ' Stoicism today', which might better suit your purposes...rather than using this thread for your own agenda. Which has obviously nothing to do with recovery or sobriety...making it irrelevant to the nature of this site and those it serves.
Trudgin
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,348
Redmayne,
Thanks for the post!
I love the remainder of the serenity prayer (long form)
Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
As it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
If I surrender to His Will;
So that I may be reasonably happy in this life
And supremely happy with Him
Forever and ever in the next.
Amen.
Glad you're here~!
ps - I have found my HP on SR is the ignore button!!
Thanks for the post!
I love the remainder of the serenity prayer (long form)
Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
As it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
If I surrender to His Will;
So that I may be reasonably happy in this life
And supremely happy with Him
Forever and ever in the next.
Amen.
Glad you're here~!
ps - I have found my HP on SR is the ignore button!!
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
With all due respect to you,my thread was directed at the Stoic philosophy and it's relevance to, 'The Serenity Prayer'.
Apatheia is an essential concept in Stoic philosopy. Just not Stoicism 101.
Redmayne
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Manchester, England, UK.
Posts: 1,543
To Boleo ...
To Boleo - I don't mind, in fact I welcome others responding top my threads with constructive comment or criticism. I do, perhaps perfectly understandbly, object to those who use them to pursue their own agendas.
In a manner which often add little to others or my comments, and are used simply and selfishly, in an attempt to raise their own standing in SRC and not in the spirit of sharing our experience, strength and hope.
Some thing which I'd always understood was the main purpose of it's existence, otherwise, what's the point of it?
On that basis, I simply ask, other than stating the obvious, your point being?
i.e., if I said I'd taken an interest in cars, where you then going to tell the rest of us that they often have four tyres, a steering wheel and an engine?
In a manner which often add little to others or my comments, and are used simply and selfishly, in an attempt to raise their own standing in SRC and not in the spirit of sharing our experience, strength and hope.
Some thing which I'd always understood was the main purpose of it's existence, otherwise, what's the point of it?
On that basis, I simply ask, other than stating the obvious, your point being?
i.e., if I said I'd taken an interest in cars, where you then going to tell the rest of us that they often have four tyres, a steering wheel and an engine?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern Us
Posts: 1,366
I enjoyed reading Epictetus' The Enchiridion. I found as a free pdf online.
It starts with "Some things you can control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things that are not in our control are body, reputation, command, and , in a word, whatever are not our own actions..."
I think that the Serenity Prayer compliments the above nicely.
It starts with "Some things you can control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things that are not in our control are body, reputation, command, and , in a word, whatever are not our own actions..."
I think that the Serenity Prayer compliments the above nicely.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by Redmayne 
On that basis, I simply ask, other than stating the obvious, your point being?
i.e., if I said I'd taken an interest in cars, where you then going to tell the rest of us that they often have four tyres, a steering wheel and an engine?
i.e., if I said I'd taken an interest in cars, where you then going to tell the rest of us that they often have four tyres, a steering wheel and an engine?
Apatheia is not just a minor part of Stoicism... It was considered the pinnacle state of mind in the Stoic hierarchy. Perhaps even the fundamental reason Stoicism was invented in the first place.
Serenity is also considered by some (not all) a pinnacle state of mind in recovery circles. It certainly gets a lot of air time in all of the meetings I attend. That makes it germane to a "What is Recovery" forum.
Equanimity (aka Apatheia) has played a vital role in my recovery. It is the best way I can describe the state of mind that I am in when I am "Spiritually Fit". When I am Spiritually fit - nothing disturbs me enough that I feel like I need to pick up a drink. When I am in that state of mind, I don't need to struggle to stay sober, I am naturally sober by default. For me, it is the most comfortable way to stay sober, the most natural way to stay sober and the most reliable way to stay sober.
I also find it interesting to note that most religions have a term used to describe such a state of mind. In some religions it is also the pinnacle state of mind.
P.S. If this was a car related forum... I would be talking about the joy of driving, not the benefits of getting from point A to point B.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
PS+ If this was a car related forum... I would be talking about the joy of driving as being the "pinnacle state of mind" while driving... and I would go on to talk about the particular attributes a car might have in achieving that goal.
I would welcome others to discuss their hierarchy of attributes.
I would welcome others to discuss their hierarchy of attributes.
Redmayne
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Manchester, England, UK.
Posts: 1,543
As per usual...
As per usual you've missed the point of the thread, it's about recovery from alcoholism and the relationship between Stoicism, in general terms and 'The Serenity Prayer'.
It's not some platform to be used to air your psuedo-academic views, once more giving the impression that you live in a fantasy land of imagined, patronising superiority, which benefits no one but you.
Proof of which is that I've already referred you to two sites which specifically deal with Stoicism as a subject, which you've now ignored , presumably because you're so self absorbed you haven't noticed.
This, plus the fact that you never mention your own or anyone else's recovery from alcoholism is hardly a good indicator of your credibility on this site, specifically set aside for this purpose, but used by you for something entirely different, your own ego.
Which isn't part of mine or anyone else's recovery.
It's not some platform to be used to air your psuedo-academic views, once more giving the impression that you live in a fantasy land of imagined, patronising superiority, which benefits no one but you.
Proof of which is that I've already referred you to two sites which specifically deal with Stoicism as a subject, which you've now ignored , presumably because you're so self absorbed you haven't noticed.
This, plus the fact that you never mention your own or anyone else's recovery from alcoholism is hardly a good indicator of your credibility on this site, specifically set aside for this purpose, but used by you for something entirely different, your own ego.
Which isn't part of mine or anyone else's recovery.
Redmayne
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Manchester, England, UK.
Posts: 1,543
Applying the principles of ...
Applying the principles of Stoic philosophy and The Serenity Prayer as out lined by me at the start of this thread. I can't, at least on this site control my environment, which again at the moment includes you, I can control my own thoughts and beliefs concerning you, 'bye'
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Redmayne;
What made you choose that tag line? It kind of reminds me of mine.
What attracted me to your posts in the first place was how similar some of your sentences are to mine. Could it be that my posts have been having a subliminal effect on yours?
What made you choose that tag line? It kind of reminds me of mine.
What attracted me to your posts in the first place was how similar some of your sentences are to mine. Could it be that my posts have been having a subliminal effect on yours?
Caitlin5
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Portland, ME
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by Redmayne
In pursing my efforts to make spiritual progress. I've recently turned my attention to familiarising myself with Stoic philosophy, developed many years ago in Greek and Roman times.
To my delight, as has been pointed out in an article I read. Of which, to my delight, the wording of 'The Serenity Prayer' is a good example,
'God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, ( the weather, the economy or other people)
The courage to change the things I can, (our own thoughts and beliefs by way of focussing our attention one our own thoughts and beliefs)
And the wisdom to know the difference.' (which in the light of what I've just written, I'd hope would be self explanatory.)
This helps me, on a daily basis to accept that I suffer from the disease/illness of alcoholism, it doesn't really matter whether you drank yourself into it, or , as in the case of a small number of people like me, were born with it.
Together with the fact that by way of focussing my own energy and beliefs, I can and have, in my case with the belief in the God of my understanding. Who may not be yours or anyone else's God, but is personal to me. Exercise enough control over my desire to drink alcohol, that in truth, whilst I accept it exists in society, plays no significant part in mylife. Whereas at one time it was at the core of it!
Obviously there is much more to Stoic philosophy than this, an example of which is in Marcus Aurelius book 'Meditations', but I think the example I've given in the wording of 'The Serenity Prayer' is a good place for me or anyone in recovery to start.
To my delight, as has been pointed out in an article I read. Of which, to my delight, the wording of 'The Serenity Prayer' is a good example,
'God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, ( the weather, the economy or other people)
The courage to change the things I can, (our own thoughts and beliefs by way of focussing our attention one our own thoughts and beliefs)
And the wisdom to know the difference.' (which in the light of what I've just written, I'd hope would be self explanatory.)
This helps me, on a daily basis to accept that I suffer from the disease/illness of alcoholism, it doesn't really matter whether you drank yourself into it, or , as in the case of a small number of people like me, were born with it.
Together with the fact that by way of focussing my own energy and beliefs, I can and have, in my case with the belief in the God of my understanding. Who may not be yours or anyone else's God, but is personal to me. Exercise enough control over my desire to drink alcohol, that in truth, whilst I accept it exists in society, plays no significant part in mylife. Whereas at one time it was at the core of it!
Obviously there is much more to Stoic philosophy than this, an example of which is in Marcus Aurelius book 'Meditations', but I think the example I've given in the wording of 'The Serenity Prayer' is a good place for me or anyone in recovery to start.
Google the entire "Serenity Prayer." It gets even MORE awesome! Hi! Have a great day.
Last edited by Caitlin5; 03-04-2015 at 07:44 AM. Reason: Name: from Caitlin5
Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: San Pedro, CA
Posts: 24
In my humble opinion...
I personally do not associate the serenity prayer (that is taped to the mirror in our bathroom) with Stoicism.
If I understand Stoicism philosophy it is the belief absence of emotion and feelings bring peace.
I would propose that the serenity prayer is more of a belief or seeking of wisdom to deal with our everyday problems and frustrations that will inevitably show up at our door.
I personally do not associate the serenity prayer (that is taped to the mirror in our bathroom) with Stoicism.
If I understand Stoicism philosophy it is the belief absence of emotion and feelings bring peace.
I would propose that the serenity prayer is more of a belief or seeking of wisdom to deal with our everyday problems and frustrations that will inevitably show up at our door.
waking down
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
For what it's worth, I have found Boleo's posts in this thread relevant and appropriate, and I don't really understand why Redmayne has been so critical of Boleo's contributions. Mentioning apatheia does not at all smack of derailing or having a different agenda from the original post.
Also, I kind of agree with scooterdog except that one could argue that rationally viewing our experience through the filter of the serenity prayer is relevant to stoicism in that the prayer helps us to avoid emotional pain and thus live a more stoic existence. Maybe this is where Redmayne sees a connection between the prayer, stoicism, and recovery.
My own bias is to remove "God" from the prayer. Indeed, I believe serenity is a result rather than a cause. In other words, serenity does not bring me acceptance, courage and wisdom; my own acceptance, courage and wisdom lead me to serenity. By taking responsibility for my thoughts, emotions, and behaviors, I assist in my own recovery.
Also, I kind of agree with scooterdog except that one could argue that rationally viewing our experience through the filter of the serenity prayer is relevant to stoicism in that the prayer helps us to avoid emotional pain and thus live a more stoic existence. Maybe this is where Redmayne sees a connection between the prayer, stoicism, and recovery.
My own bias is to remove "God" from the prayer. Indeed, I believe serenity is a result rather than a cause. In other words, serenity does not bring me acceptance, courage and wisdom; my own acceptance, courage and wisdom lead me to serenity. By taking responsibility for my thoughts, emotions, and behaviors, I assist in my own recovery.
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