Redmayne

One thing that puzzles me about getting into, recovery itself followed by sobriety, not least prolonged sobriety is that nowhere in A A literature or anything, in my various readings e.g.spiritual books etc.

Can I find, amongst all the welter of advice, suggestions, programs etc., etc.,anything that actually says, at some stage at least you should enjoy the whole experience?

I mean let's not be silly about this, none, least of all me enjoys the time spent, however short or long, existing, it's certainly not living other than living a delusional life, trapped in their own personal 'alcohell' suffering the only disease/illness that tells you, you haven't got it!

Plus the fact I'm personally willing to accept that persons maybe more authoritative, knowledgeable or well read than I may point me to somewhere , where it actually says or suggests me or anyone on entering their own program of recovery or even in sobriety, they should , perhaps on a daily basis enjoy the whole experience, but I've yet to see it.

I'll accept that the penultimate para. on page 164 of the book 'Alcoholics Anonymous (4th Ed.) talks about 'sweeping away the wreckage of the past etc., etc. and trudging with us towards our happy destiny'.

Neither do I have any problem with fundamental Buddhist philosophy and heir view of how to lead a happy life, primarily brought about by experiential learning or other life affirming or changing books I've read, e.g. Richard Bach's,
'Johnathan Livingston Seagull et al.

May be I'm being 'picky' or it's a foregone conclusion, above my pay grade, but I've yet to heart or read anyone suggest , in recovery or afterwards, perhaps allied with the idea of taking as positive approach as you can that you should not only enjoy the experience but go on enjoying it, on a daily basis in yours, mine or anyone else's future...

No doubt someone,preferably by way of constructive comment or criticism will correct if I'm wrong...

freshstart57

Many live their lives in fear, and feed on the anxiety and self righteousness that results. Enjoyment is really what a life well lived is about! I told once about laughing at my AV, and was met with scorn, how could I laugh about such a serious matter? It was too hard to explain that laughter was a very useful tool. How can I fear something that I just laughed at? Fear of the AV, and fear of relapse is just more AV.

Many of my posts talk about enjoyment and a fulfilling life in all aspects, a refusal to live a life dominated by fear, and others post this way too. Dee often opines that our sober lives are happier, or how could we stay sober?

My approach to sobriety is disturbingly positive to some - self empowerment, self knowledge, self motivation. 4000 posts and counting. Positive messages are all around us, sometimes they need to be sought to be found.

Taking5

So you are not finding in AA literature where it says you should be happy or enjoying life? Did I get that right?

DarkLife

I have been sober now for a few days, and i haven't even got any literature yet. so i am still on step one.
part of step 1 to me is that I am powerless over how i feel. and that i feel Like ****
I went to work last night with a horrible feeling of dread, and thought I HATE LIFE. I hate waking up, and i kept on with this feeling of hate, of my meaningless existence, and of how i do not enjoy anything. This feeling stayed with me for about an hour, then after some deep surrender, i even added a thought, that i do not even care that i hate life either. normally i would have felt guilty for feeling hatred, but i didn't, i just let it be, and then i found something happened

I actually enjoyed feeling the hate. Yes my face was like Tony Hancocks again, but this time,instead of climbing back under the covers, i got angry with myself for being so god damn mard and wimpy. so i headed out for my bus to work, in my mean face and disgust with all of life, and had the best night at work i had ever had.

nothing desirable happened, in fact by all standards, it was just another ordinary day at work, but i must have accepted my disgust and hatred so deeply that it just felt enjoyable. that sounds rather odd to me, because i thought i shouldn't have those kind of feelings. i mean, how could i enjoy my hate....

i don't know but i hope that makes sense, it dosen't make much sense to me but there you have it

Redmayne

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying for one moment that recovery from any form of dependency or addiction to anything is easy for anyone. It certainly wasn't for me!

It's accepted that, apart from the physical aspects, ultimately all these conditions are rooted in the mind, so to at least begin to take the first steps towards recovery, a lot can be gained from changing the mindset of he person concerned, you or me.

On this basis a lot can be gained by obviously, not only taking a positive attitude but also in seeking and learning to enjoy not only the experience, but the benefits to yourself and others from it..

Oddly, in my experience, on which I'm ready to stand corrected, is never mentioned, certainly not in a direct manner and yet, at least for the person concerned , it seems a fundamental part of the whole process of recovery.

Whilst there's lots about gratitude, working with others, even in the book 'Alcoholics Anonymous' a chapter entitled,'A Vision for You'. Even in my accepting that fundamental Buddhist philosophy played and still does a large part in my recovery even the 'Circle of Life' is reduced to birth, suffering, death. Little, if anything about enjoying life or experiential learning. Something I think all addicts, whether in recovery or not, know quite a lot about!

Equally so, I've still yet to find this suggest anywhere else, may be I'm reading the wrong books or looking in the wrong places???

Taking5

The idea of being happy in recovery is all over the AA big book. Maybe you need to re-read it.

happybeingme

You could perhaps be right. Maybe it isnt written anywhere because it is assumed you will have more positive feelings as you journey along.

I have many moments of happiness since I stopped drinking but more importantly for me I have a greater sense of gratitude, peace and contentment than I ever thought possible. I dont talk about it because those feelings have become an integral part of myself as I have worked on my recovery.

Redmayne

I think the closest suggestion I can find in literature is in Soko Morinaga's, a highly respected Zen Master, famous book,'Novice to Master', in the verse written by Shido Bunan Zenji, suggesting that you should, metaphorically speaking,

'Die whilst alive,

Thoroughly die,

Then just do as you will,

and all will be well.'

I'm sure that, in reality anyone who has suffered addiction, not least to drugs or alcohol, perhaps both and recovered from them, by whatever means will appreciate them ... and their suggestion of 'enjoying the experience'.

Not just in recovery but in life itself.

ru12

Every morning I wake up and I'm sober and not hungover. And I smile and am happy to have survived and am no longer addicted. I guess in my mind I'm convinced that I probably would/should be dead if I hadn't stopped drinking. But I did indeed stop and get to live the life I almost lost. I'm filled with gratitude to be sitting here typing this... Coffee in hand. I just finished reading the NYTimes and am going out for a run with my lovely wife. Life is indeed good.

desypete

maybe as the book was written so long ago based on only 100 people and they were only a few years sober at the time of writing then maybe they hadnt experienced the enjoyment of the act of getting sober etc

i mean i am 10 years sober now i dont think there was any of the first 100 sober alcoholics had 10 years when the book was written so how could they have the same experience of sober life as me today ?

so maybe thats why you can not find what your looking for in the written books as they hadnt experienced it back then

airwick

You lost me, I'll see you on the "Polar Express" lol
Have a great day

SoberCAH

To me, the Promises of the program, which have manifested themselves in my life, mean that life is something to be savored and enjoyed - not something to be survived.

The best way to savor and enjoy the gift of life is to try to learn and do God's will, as opposed to overeating, obsessing (this includes music, books, and cowboy boots - I remind myself) on things, retail therapy and other consumptive and self-centered pursuits.

When I do good things, which are what the Steps try to get me to do, I feel good in a way that no thing (of any type or nature) can give me.

Just my thoughts on enjoying life.

Redmayne

My thoughts on enjoying both my recovery, brought about by my having a 'spiritual or psychic' experience. There being no other explanation forthcoming, and my life.Are that it is now time for me to leave this site, obviously my ability to communicate with others, as most people have missed the point I'd hoped to raise in posting this thread.

The idea that we should all enjoy our recovery and life itself is, I would have thought a fairly obvious one....

The idea that in order to effect or motivate anyones recovery by talking a positive attitude to it, enhanced by enjoying the experience, I've yet to hear or see written from anyone.

Which when you consider the benefits of the outcome, some of which are written here, balanced against the only eventual outcome for those who continue to drink i.e. to go insane or to die, most hoping the latter comes first!

Is, of itself, quite amazing, I can say no more ...

livingnow

[QUOTE I told once about laughing at my AV, and was met with scorn, how could I laugh about such a serious matter? It was too hard to explain that laughter was a very useful tool. How can I fear something that I just laughed at? Fear of the AV, and fear of relapse is just more AV.
[/QUOTE]

DITTO
WELL SAID!!!

Hawks

The enjoyment is in the 12th step.

Paying back to pay forward.

The only step in the book that got its own chapter.

How important do you think Bill thought it was?

Redmayne

1. What is an AV?

2. To get to the 12th Step, common sense logic says you have to pass through Steps 1 - 11, which doesn't really answer the point raised in this thread.

As to how important Bill together with the first 100 or so responsible for writing the book 'Alcoholics Anonymous', with reference to Chapter 7, 'Working With Others' thought Step Twelve was, perhaps the answer can be found in the wording on the first line of the chapter,' Practical experience shows that nothing will so much insure immunity from drinking as intensive work with other alcoholics.'

Raising the suggestion that many agree on, that the suggested program of recovery is a 'selfish program'....

With the sole object of the book being to show, in recovery, hopefully followed by prolonged sobriety, being to show not only how to live sober but have a peaceful, happy , sober existence!

Hawks

Helping others helps us.

It's circular, but I don't think selfish is the right word

Redmayne

The wisdom of the ages suggests that putting the needs of others before self has always, been one of the best ways in finding your own true self.

It's virtually inbuilt in most spiritual philosophies.

With the proviso, especially as regards helping others who suffer from alcoholism, 'that you can't transmit something you haven't got' see 'Alcoholics Anonymous'.

The term 'selfish' is used in it's broadest sense, e.g. when after a year spent in sobriety trying to sober up other drunks and failing miserably. Bill W. complained that his attempts, practised on the basis of 'one drunk talking to another'. As he'd done with 'Dr. Bob', his wife, Lois, with unerring female intuition correctly pointed out that it had kept him sober! Something that had never happened before.

There are even those who credit Lois Wilson for starting A A because of this.

Which is why the suggested program of recovery contained in the 12 Steps is referred to as a 'selfish program'.

Hawks

Tomaytoe... Tomartoe

Redmayne

Well, that's set the intellectual tone for a response to what I said previously although I don't see it as falling into the category of constructive comment or criticism, as it doesn't really say anything ... but if it gives you pleasure, 'live and let live'.