why does it have to be called recover at all?

[notofeudalism]

I think recovery is a general term. There are those who think an addict is and always will be "recovering". There are those who believe one can be "recovered". Its a simple question. I dont think one needs a program. Some do, some don't. One wants to stop using to enter into whatever people think "recovery " is. Why is it a hard concept to understand that one cant simply want to truly quit and do it. Are former cigarette smokers always in "recovery" or have they simply wanted to quit? Its a matter of lifestyle and how one chooses to live

[sfgirl]

Originally Posted by notofeudalism

I think recovery is a general term. There are those who think an addict is and always will be "recovering". There are those who believe one can be "recovered". Its a simple question. I dont think one needs a program. Some do, some don't. One wants to stop using to enter into whatever people think "recovery " is. Why is it a hard concept to understand that one cant simply want to truly quit and do it. Are former cigarette smokers always in "recovery" or have they simply wanted to quit? Its a matter of lifestyle and how one chooses to live

I think you'll get the term when you get there. If you still don't like it, don't use it.

[Rad44]

Because Alcoholism always gets worse, it never gets better. There is no cure, thus you are always in recovery. If you become an Alcoholic and then choose to ever drink again you will never in your Life be any better that your worst day of Alcoholism no matter how long you have quit for. There is simply no way around that fact.

[notofeudalism]

"Because Alcoholism always gets worse, it never gets better. There is no cure, thus you are always in recovery. If you become an Alcoholic and then choose to ever drink again you will never in your Life be any better that your worst day of Alcoholism no matter how long you have quit for. There is simply no way around that fact. "

I have a hard time believing that alcoholism is the only disease that always gets worse and never gets better. There is no cure "yet". There may be around the corner. Who knows. I don't think one "becomes" an alcoholic. There is plenty of scienific evidence pointing to a strong correlation with genetic studies. Its also environment as well, but I think the cause is primarily biological. Just my opinion.

When one gets a cold, one recovers. A person who has cancer and goes into remission is considered recovered after a period of time. Diabetics dont always get worse, in fact many manage to successfully control their condition through diet and exercise and proper medications. Until a cure is found.

[Boleo]

For some the problem stops when the drinking stops. For others (like myself) the problem grows bigger when the drinking stops.

For me recovering was suffering. Recovered encompasses so much more than sobriety that it is hard to describe to someone who has not experienced it.

"In this life pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."

[Tosh]

Boleo gave a good explanation, and I consider myself recovered, as opposed to recovering.

I've recovered from the mental obsession I had with alcohol and the madness I was living.

And (I heard this somewhere and I like it) being recovered is a bit like having a cold. You can recover from a cold, but it doesn't mean you're not going to catch it again.

I wish more people in AA would describe themselves as recovered in AA, if they feel they are (and many of us do, but don't say that, because it doesn't sound humble), because it gives the newcommer hope.

[jamdls]

Originally Posted by Tosh

And (I heard this somewhere and I like it) being recovered is a bit like having a cold. You can recover from a cold, but it doesn't mean you're not going to catch it again.

I like that! I have absolutely no desire for alchol even just going down the beer/wine isle at the grocery store (the chips are there!) makes me feel a little sick to my stomach but I know that if I ever have even a sip of alcohol I'd quickly be on the road to death. I am highly "allergic" to alchol.

[Freedom1990]

I can debate semantics all day long, but the fact remains either I am still actively drinking or I am not, no?

[Boleo]

Originally Posted by Freedom1990

I can debate semantics all day long, but the fact remains either I am still actively drinking or I am not, no?

Abstinence is NOT DRINKING and feeling bad about it.

Recovered is NOT DRINKING and feeling good about.

[Firehazard]

Originally Posted by notofeudalism

I think recovery is a general term. There are those who think an addict is and always will be "recovering". There are those who believe one can be "recovered". Its a simple question. I dont think one needs a program. Some do, some don't. One wants to stop using to enter into whatever people think "recovery " is. Why is it a hard concept to understand that one cant simply want to truly quit and do it. Are former cigarette smokers always in "recovery" or have they simply wanted to quit? Its a matter of lifestyle and how one chooses to live

Thanks for Sharing

[notofeudalism]

Originally Posted by Firehazard

Thanks for Sharing

Thank you

I sure can't get it, although I can put it into words. Go figure.

[joedris]

The term "recovery" is used in talking about addiction (alcohol in my case) because there's no better word to use. How you define it really doesn't matter. I've been in AA for a long time and am uncomfortable using the word recovery or recovered. I've recovered from the physical and emotional damage caused by drinking, but I know that if I take just one drink now I'll be right back where I started. So in that respect I still suffer from alcoholism, and will until that elusive cure ever materializes. (which I'm not holding my breath waiting for)

The other problem here is how do you measure recovery? Is it not drinking for a certain period of time? If so, what's the period? I relapsed after ten years of sobriety and know of folks who relapsed after 20 years or more. So I guess that ten or twenty years can't be considered as periods by which we can measure recovery.

So I don't get too wrapped around the axle about recovery/recovered. I didn't drink today and that's all that really matters. When tomorrow comes then I'll deal with tomorrow. And if you don't need/use a program for quitting drinking, that's fine. Each of us is different when it comes to alcohol. Use whatever works for you.

[CarolD]

When I state that I am an AA recovered alcoholic
it's simply a phrase for how I am living my life.

How others choose to think of themselves is their deal.

Of course, people do quit drinking without a structured program.
We share often here with each other about various ways.
It's not a contest nor a reason for discrediting others.
Time after time..post after post....members are
encouraged to find something that benefits them.

As far as how alcoholics become so....there are many studies
theories and concepts. Interesting as they might be ....
there is no absolute definite answer as yet.

I never have figured out which drink on what day
slid me into alcoholism. I was dancing merrly along
being productive....working....drinking ... enjoying myself
then Wham! Depression became my daily companion.

I see so many of our new members being concerned
over exactly what their drinking is doing to them.
I urge everyone here to seek a way to stop and
enjoy a healthy positive future....

[notofeudalism]

Thanks CarolD. I come at it from an unconventional angle though. While most everything in recovery, including AA and secular programs/in/out pt rehab, focuses on stopping and remaining stopped, I tend to ask the question why did we start in the first place. IMO when people focus on recovery and all the good benefits, they are looking at a symptom. I am looking for the underlying cause of addiction, which would be to look at the source disease, and not a symptom or symptoms.

You said you were going on with life, productive, merry along, "drinking", then wham depression suddenly hit. I would ask the question why were you drinking in the first place. And I have asked myself that question as well seeking an answer. I look back to when I took my first drink of alcohol.

I was 4 years old when I had my first drink. My mom used to give me a teaspoon of brandy when I was sick or had a cold. It was believed to her I guess through family or other info that this helped. My father was an alcoholic, my mother an addict. My aunt and uncle are alcoholics as well as my first cousin(my father's sister's kid) There is a strong biological component to addiction and there are certain genes and genetic markers that are associated with alcoholism and addiction. That is why I view it as a medical disease.

Im not putting down anyone's method of trying to quit or stay quit. Im just saying the power of suggestion and the placebo effect are real and strong. They do not cure the addiction however. Addiction is a multifaceted disease with both a strong biological component and lesser environmental components. I hope one day as polio was once cured, so will addiction be cured. And environmental components were also a part of the disease of polio. Poor diet/nutrition, air quality, lack of medical care, etc, contributed greatly to the underlying disease and causes of death from polio.

Just as in cancer, diabetes, and many other diseases, emotional support and sense of community help to strengthen us and our fight. Best wishes to all.

[notofeudalism]

Its not a matter of semantics. And yes you are correct about one is either drinking or one is not. Whether one is drinking or not is not the definition of recovery, though, so Im missing your point. Thanks for the reply, too.

[Tosh]

Originally Posted by notofeudalism

I tend to ask the question why did we start in the first place.

IMO when people focus on recovery and all the good benefits, they are looking at a symptom. I am looking for the underlying cause of addiction, which would be to look at the source disease, and not a symptom or symptoms.

Hi Noto, in my experience of therepy, finding out why I started to drink alcoholically was pointless. It boiled down to the fact that I just liked to drink. It had nothing to do with my Mother and Father, though I do reckon that having a resentment against your parents is almost a prerequisite for an alcholic (that's a joke by the way).

But I do agree something along the lines that our drinking/drugging is just a symptom of our illness (if that's what you meant), and I'm only just starting to really come to terms that my drinking was only one symtom of the illness I had.

I remember reading the Steps as a newcomer to AA and thought it would never work. There's only one mention of alcohol and that was in the first step and I thought 'how stupid is that', I want to stop drinking and not do all this weird god stuff'.

But I did it, out of desperation, and amazingly I recovered!

So from the above I have evidence that the problem was not my drinking, the problem was 'me', and drinking was only a symptom of my illness. Looking back, I was a total git, and now I'm only a bit of a git whose working on becoming a better human being; that was my problem; I was a git (but you can substitute git for a stonger word).

Am I making sense? As I say, I've only just recently wrapped my warped brain round that concept and actually believed it.

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by notofeudalism

When one gets a cold, one recovers. A person who has cancer and goes into remission is considered recovered after a period of time. Diabetics dont always get worse, in fact many manage to successfully control their condition through diet and exercise and proper medications. Until a cure is found.

Exactly! If an alcoholic is not drinking and has no desire to drink, apart from that being a miracle - they are recovered. We are never cured but we do recover. This is not my opinion. It is my experience and the experience of those people in AA who follow the instructions of our programme.

We are told to introduce ourselves as someone who has recovered. We do not introduce ourselves as always recovering because that gives no hope to a suffering alcoholic. It implies we will be victims for the rest of our lives and it is self centered of us not to think of others first. I am not as self pitying as I used to be when I was drinking so not being a victim any more is important to me. Don't get me wrong - Im sad sometimes - but I don't dwell in my own problems so much these days.

If I introduce myself as simply an alcoholic, someone could offer me a drink. If I introduce myself as a recovered alcoholic, I may just be helping to save someone's life and I feel strong and proud.

And just as an aside, there is an old saying - if you need to argue the difference between recovered or recovering, you are probably neither. We are recovering for a short time until we do the steps in our programme. Trying to explain what it is like to be recovered in AA is like trying to describe what it's like to .........um......make love.. to someone who never tried it. It's something you just don't want to miss!!!!! This is my experience.

[notofeudalism]

Originally Posted by Tosh

Hi Noto, in my experience of therepy, finding out why I started to drink alcoholically was pointless. It boiled down to the fact that I just liked to drink. It had nothing to do with my Mother and Father, though I do reckon that having a resentment against your parents is almost a prerequisite for an alcholic (that's a joke by the way).

But I do agree something along the lines that our drinking/drugging is just a symptom of our illness (if that's what you meant), and I'm only just starting to really come to terms that my drinking was only one symtom of the illness I had.

I remember reading the Steps as a newcomer to AA and thought it would never work. There's only one mention of alcohol and that was in the first step and I thought 'how stupid is that', I want to stop drinking and not do all this weird god stuff'.

But I did it, out of desperation, and amazingly I recovered!

So from the above I have evidence that the problem was not my drinking, the problem was 'me', and drinking was only a symptom of my illness. Looking back, I was a total git, and now I'm only a bit of a git whose working on becoming a better human being; that was my problem; I was a git (but you can substitute git for a stonger word).

Am I making sense? As I say, I've only just recently wrapped my warped brain round that concept and actually believed it.

You have it. I was also told I dont have a drinking disease but a "me" disease. The problem is that disease runs in my family and there is a biological basis for it. You, along with a couple of others, are "getting it", which really changes the dynamic of addiction.

[notofeudalism]

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

Exactly! If an alcoholic is not drinking and has no desire to drink, apart from that being a miracle - they are recovered. We are never cured but we do recover. This is not my opinion. It is my experience and the experience of those people in AA who follow the instructions of our programme.

We are told to introduce ourselves as someone who has recovered. We do not introduce ourselves as always recovering because that gives no hope to a suffering alcoholic. It implies we will be victims for the rest of our lives and it is self centered of us not to think of others first. I am not as self pitying as I used to be when I was drinking so not being a victim any more is important to me. Don't get me wrong - Im sad sometimes - but I don't dwell in my own problems so much these days.

If I introduce myself as simply an alcoholic, someone could offer me a drink. If I introduce myself as a recovered alcoholic, I may just be helping to save someone's life and I feel strong and proud.

And just as an aside, there is an old saying - if you need to argue the difference between recovered or recovering, you are probably neither. We are recovering for a short time until we do the steps in our programme. Trying to explain what it is like to be recovered in AA is like trying to describe what it's like to .........um......make love.. to someone who never tried it. It's something you just don't want to miss!!!!! This is my experience.

Although I appreciate you reply greatly, I disagree. If an alcoholic is not drinking and has no desire to drink it does not mean they are "recovered" Or "recovering" That person still has the disease of addiction. The underlying disease of addiction needs to be addressed first and foremost.

[Bamboozle]

Addiction is always there...at least that's been my experience.

It cannot be cured...only managed.

When I talk about "recovery" I'm not referring only to addiction...it has to do with my entire life. I have depression, anxiety, and addiction. I fight these things with therapy, meds, and SR.

I am recovering from a really sh!tty life. I don't want to go back to the way things were.

[notofeudalism]

Originally Posted by Bamboozle

Addiction is always there...at least that's been my experience.

It cannot be cured...only managed.

When I talk about "recovery" I'm not referring only to addiction...it has to do with my entire life. I have depression, anxiety, and addiction. I fight these things with therapy, meds, and SR.

I am recovering from a really sh!tty life. I don't want to go back to the way things were.

I hear you and read you post, but saying it cannot be cured is false. Many diseases have been cured. To give up and say it cant gives authority to those who would "manage" it for you.

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by notofeudalism

Although I appreciate you reply greatly, I disagree. If an alcoholic is not drinking and has no desire to drink it does not mean they are "recovered" Or "recovering" That person still has the disease of addiction. The underlying disease of addiction needs to be addressed first and foremost.

Im not quite sure how you can disagree with someone's experience.

My problem is gone. My programme worked for me. The problem I had with alcohol has vanished. I would rather stick needles in my eyes than drink. I got sane about alcohol. I have my family back. I am living a life beyond my dreams. I am acutely aware that staying recovered is contingent on a daily reprieve I get from working my program.

I followed the instructions because I was a desperate drunk who had nothing left but to throw myself into this with every last ounce of energy I had left. I was drinking so much every day I was peeing and vomitting blood and then even when I was drinking more than ever I couldn't feel drunk any more. I tried to kill myself several times because I thought I couldn't live drinking and I couldn't live without drinking and there seemed to be absolutely no way out.

So - if I want to call myself recovered because it might give hope to someone who is going through the same torture I did, I don't really care if people agree with me or disagree.

Or maybe you would like to know exactly what I did to recover?

[notofeudalism]

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

Im not quite sure how you can disagree with someone's experience.

My problem is gone. My programme worked for me. The problem I had with alcohol has vanished. I would rather stick needles in my eyes than drink. I got sane about alcohol. I have my family back. I am living a life beyond my dreams. I am acutely aware that staying recovered is contingent on a daily reprieve I get from working my program.

I followed the instructions because I was a desperate drunk who had nothing left but to throw myself into this with every last ounce of energy I had left. I was drinking so much every day I was peeing and vomitting blood and then even when I was drinking more than ever I couldn't feel drunk any more. I tried to kill myself several times because I thought I couldn't live drinking and I couldn't live without drinking and there seemed to be absolutely no way out.

So - if I want to call myself recovered because it might give hope to someone who is going through the same torture I did, I don't really care if people agree with me or disagree.

Or maybe you would like to know exactly what I did to recover?

I read what you posted and I have experienced similar, though not exactly what you have. Im not disagreeing with anyone's experience., including yours. Im offering my opinion. If you problem is gone, and has vanished and has worked, that is great. Your program however, does not apply to everyone. If you followed instructions because you were desperate that is cool too. If you would like to post what you did to "recover", you are welcome to do that, and I would not object at all.

[Tosh]

Originally Posted by Bamboozle

Addiction is always there...at least that's been my experience.

It cannot be cured...only managed.

When I talk about "recovery" I'm not referring only to addiction...it has to do with my entire life. I have depression, anxiety, and addiction. I fight these things with therapy, meds, and SR.

I am recovering from a really sh!tty life. I don't want to go back to the way things were.

That sounds like a not very happy existence, and I used to have similair feelings too. I thought life had always dealt me a crappy hand of cards, and that's why I drank.

Now, I don't believe The Programme of AA can cure depression, no more than it can cure cancer, but it can sort out anxiety and alcohol addiction; it has for me; it can also cure a sh!tty life.

Why don't you give it a go; you've absolutely nothing to lose.

I think AA can help with depression though. A close friend of mine in AA suffers with severe depression (so bad that he doesn't leave the house and won't even answer his phone when he's suffering) and he says the programme helps.

[Bamboozle]

Originally Posted by notofeudalism

I hear you and read you post, but saying it cannot be cured is false. Many diseases have been cured. To give up and say it cant gives authority to those who would "manage" it for you.

1. There is currently no cure for addiction.

2. I have not given up...I'm just something called "realistic" and "responsible for my actions."

3. I am the one who manages my addictions. No one does it for me.


Funny, noto, you're very opposed to the addiction treatment industry...yet you have nothing to say about the alcohol industry. Do you think Anheuser-Busch has your best interests at heart? Alcohol companies count on people like us to stay active in addiction. If you want to keep drinking that's most certainly your choice.