What is a Relapse, exactly?

[IO Storm]

Thanks g2b...

Wow..you are a brave one! I had to get off..and thought..sheeesh. Why did I

leave an open ended question like that? It seemed presumptive and somewhat

judgemental. My point is..After 16 years of being in and out of AA, and maintaining

my sobriety with "something else"...I finally got my miracle.

Clean and sober. Two years 7 months in a few days. Just the inner peace of it,

is something I wouldn't trade for that old "buzz"..any old day.

And I never thought it would happen to me.

Oh..I am bipolar too! Severe type I !!

[IO Storm]

Thanks g2b...

Wow..you are a brave one! I had to get off..and thought..sheeesh. Why did I

leave an open ended question like that? It seemed presumptive and somewhat

judgemental. My point is..After 16 years of being in and out of AA, and maintaining

my sobriety with "something else"...I finally got my miracle.

Clean and sober. Two years 7 months in a few days. Just the inner peace of it,

is something I wouldn't trade for that old "buzz"..any old day.

And I never thought it would happen to me.

Oh..I am bipolar too

[IO Storm]

Forum zapped me out..think it crashed..? Oh well, no edit buttons.

Sorry for the double, gang.

[dgtrkt]

The insanity returns and unless we have a spiritual foundation we will drink. We suffer from a spiritual malady and a disease that tells us we don't have a disease. We actual relapse become insane b4 we pick up the drink. I've relapsed many times and always I've stopped reaching out, going to meetings, calling sponser, etc.. I stop doing what I'm doing expecting the same results.

A dry drunk is very grouchy- they are not living a spiritual life or program they just haven't put alcohol in their body.

[IO Storm]

True, true.

Our defense against the first drink is a fit spiritual condition.

[Trippstar]

I thought I had cracked IT, far from it I was isolating myself not talking too anyone I was just sat in the dark in my room dry I was sober, but isolation is the worse thing Im having trouble intergrating back into society without drink.
I thought 6 months Ive cracked IT nope Im gonna have to struggle with this for the rest of my life hopefully not struggle to much tho it gets easier but its still hard.
My wording aint as good as some peoples.

Isolation = relapse to me never isolate yourself.
And other things my old pal was coming round but he was dry, the anxiety of not seeing people = relapse for me
I could talk forever about relapse but I wont. So theres my 2pence.
Bless all

[Whyme101]

something that i'm trying to forget and can not

[Whyme101]

i was hoping i could find someone who would beable to tell me what they spoke about when they received their 6 month token from a friend

[Whyme101]

it seems to have me quit dumb founded because i have never been called on to speak since i can remember ...maybe just ......thank god

[Whyme101]

anyone else a dry drunk......

[grateful2b]

Originally Posted by IO Storm

Two years 7 months in a few days. Just the inner peace of it,

is something I wouldn't trade for that old "buzz"..any old day.

And I never thought it would happen to me.

Hmmmm.....how sweet it is..

[bugsworth]

IO asked....

Do any of you think a person can continue to use and say one is sober?

I think one can say anything they like but IMO using anything mind altering is not sober.

dgtrkt...I notice you are new to SR so welcome! Your post had me checking which forum I was in...lol. Since this is not the 12 step forum I would like to say that once again it is dangerous to lump all alcoholics into a "we" category. I do not have a spiritual malady nor do I have a disease that tells me I do not have a disease. In addition the concept of a "dry-drunk" is just a way to judge another's sobriety not a fact. Congrats on your sober time...keep up the good work.

[carl11]

Dry drunk....well, I have been in the prgm for over a year and it means little to me.....spirituality, well, since I nave been in the prgm. I have received and 18.5% raise, I refied my house to a manageable 30 year fixed, I have paid off my debts, I read a chapter of the bible every night studiously, I have the respect of my peers and family, who tell me that I have really changed, and for the better.


I had a year and 38 days, I drank Friday, and I drank yesterday......... So what is the problem? Why? I have it all right?


No, what I don’t have is a handle on what ails my soul and spirit, soul and spirit? What does that have to do with it? Well, whats left people?

For those that don’t see it as spiritual sickness etc. hey, that’s cool, but if you relapse and have a hard time keeping sober than you tell me. I am far from a holy roller and don’t even talk about my spirit etc. with others than my wife. BUT , I do know that when I look at that part of myself, I feel, well, denuded. I don’t have that feel good breath of fresh air attitude. When I attend to my spirituality, I do.

Am I fooling myself? Maybe, but who cares?If booze gets you threw the night, well what’s so wrong with spirituality getting you sober?........I am sober when I address my spirit, that thing that results in a higher sum that its individual parts. Call it what you wish, but for me its real.

I relapsed, yea, I feel lousy, I want to smack myself, BUT I have a spirit that says hey, you did a year, you can do it again, get humble, and go out there and deal.

[bugsworth]

Carl...I am so sorry for your recent relapse and agree that if addressing your spirit is something that keeps you sober than do it. I think that the number one reason for relapse is as you said....fooling yourself....fooling yourself into believing that booze has any redeeming qualities...fooling yourself into believing that things will be "different this time"

Best of luck to you...stay strong.

[doorknob]

Originally Posted by dgtrkt

The insanity returns and unless we have a spiritual foundation we will drink. We suffer from a spiritual malady and a disease that tells us we don't have a disease. We actual relapse become insane b4 we pick up the drink. I've relapsed many times and always I've stopped reaching out, going to meetings, calling sponser, etc.. I stop doing what I'm doing expecting the same results.

A dry drunk is very grouchy- they are not living a spiritual life or program they just haven't put alcohol in their body.

Call me crazy, but I don't believe in spirits or talking diseases...

[dojohn2004]

I agree doorknob. I am just starting out, and don't consider myself a religious person.But reading these threads sounds like I'm just going to end up being a dry drunk.

[doorknob]

Welcome, Dojohn!

A dry drunk is better than a wet one...

[IO Storm]

Originally Posted by Whyme101

it seems to have me quit dumb founded because i have never been called on to speak since i can remember ...maybe just ......thank god

I recall..when asked to speak..I planned what I was going to say once.

"Ah..a legend in my own mind!" It seemed that my ego kept getting in the way,

lol..

Then, a Bible verse popped into my head..out of nowhere.

"Open thy mouth, and I will fill it."

I knew that I wasn't to plan what to say. So, I just said.."Thank You,"

and turned it over.

When I spoke..just the right stuff..the experience, strength, and hope

came out..effortlessly. It was there, inside of me. I didn't have to conjure

anything up, or use fancy word..impress anyone with my vocabulary.

That? would have fallen flat and on deaf ears.

Just share your own experience.

[IO Storm]

I relapsed, yea, I feel lousy, I want to smack myself, BUT I have a spirit that says hey, you did a year, you can do it again, get humble, and go out there and deal.

That's the "spirit" Carl! IMO...

Blessings on your new start....

[IO Storm]

Originally Posted by dojohn2004

I agree doorknob. I am just starting out, and don't consider myself a religious person.But reading these threads sounds like I'm just going to end up being a dry drunk.

Welcome dojohn!

Self-talk is powerful.

If this thread brings you down..you might try the Gratitude forum.

Or others..a balance.

[bugsworth]

I totally agree with IO....amazing the damage words can do...to yourself and others.

dojohn...a dry drunk is a judgement, nothing more. You can't be one unless you label yourself one. As far as religion goes it has nothing to do with a humans ability to get and stay sober. Stay strong and remain focused and you will amaze yourself. Welcome

[Zencat]

Originally Posted by LaDita

So then my question is, is a relapse only happens after one is following A.A.'s standards of recovery? Or is it drinking after trying to stay sober?
I also know that a relapse occurs well beyond someone takes the first drink.

In medical terms a "relapse: The return of signs and symptoms of a disease after a patient has enjoyed a remission." -MedicineNet.com

Right there it could get confusing if one were to list all the common symptoms of addiction. So there are symptoms of my disease (or if you like disorder) that may be an indication of my drug use or a prelude to my actual picking-up and using drugs. Then again what might be considered as symptoms of my addiction disease could also be a feature of my personality type or even a sign of my personality disorder and that has nothing to do with my history of substances and substance abuse. So for purposes of clarification I like to simplify the meaning of a relapse as a return to psychoactive substance use/abuse or back to getting loaded. As for the warning signs that a relapse may be in the works...that's where I need to know myself and discover what could trigger my desire to use again. That is, to be aware of the symptoms and signs that are pertinent to me and not include every possible symptom of addiction as a way to judge where I'm at in recovery.

Originally Posted by LaDita

Then I have to ask, what exactly is sober vs. a dry drunk? Is being sober mean following a spiritual path in recovery, or just being in recovery period? Whereas a dry drunk is doing nothing to enhance or correct himself spiritually but simply abstaining from alcohol.
Am I correct on those two?
Help me out here!

For me abstinence is a component of treatment that makes recovery possible. There are other components to my recovery too. Spirituality or as I practice a non-theistic approach to an enriched life is another. Ethical treatment of others is included in my recovery. But recovery can be the sole elimination of substance use/abuse alone as far as I'm concerned. That is to say one has returned to a state before substance use/abuse occurred. Like Peter said:

Originally Posted by Peter

I do not particularly believe in the saying that

I have met people in 12 Step meeting rooms who just needed some guidance to help get off the drugs and who have gone on to have productive drug free lives. To them abstainance was the goal that they aimed for and achieved. To them this represents recovery. Who am i to tell them that it doesn't ?

I believe for myself that recovery could also be a necessary aspect of the grander endeavor of becoming an well balanced individual instead of having addiction recovery as a blanket term to describe self-actualization.

[AW2486]

I believe relaspe happens before the injestion of alcohol or drugs. It happens in our thinking. What ever recovery program we use.. when we go from the solution back to our old thinking and behavior that leads us back to using.

Ive been reading some AA history lately. The book AA comes of Age. Bill W and the early members in the late 30's & 40's refered to dry drunks as being on a dry bender. Just thought I would toss that out there.

Peace

[IO Storm]

Thanks AW..

I could have had a V8! Yesss...relapse mode. The dry bender before the liquor touches

the lips! I do believe, know, and have experienced this.

This is my seventh attempt at sobriety.

I am still a little surpised at being successful, but very grateful.

My thinking is trained by "the count" forward from day 1 of physical sobriety.

But of course a spiritual meltdown occurs before the first drink.

The first 4 attempts..total denial took over, the last two..I willingly got drunk,

knowing my true alcoholic condition.

I don't believe a person should change their AA birthday to accomodate

a spiritual relapse. God forbid we would ever get bogged down in such

esoteric shenanigans.

And there I go again...this is not a 12 Step forum.

I concede.

[Zencat]

Originally Posted by IO Storm

And there I go again...this is not a 12 Step forum.

I do get confused about how a 'spiritual break down' or however it may be called can be considered as a relapse. Being from the CBT/REBT side of addiction treatment and a non-theist I think I would call the break down a 'red flag' or 'warring sign' that a relapse may be immanent. I also would be inclined to think that someone showing symptoms of alcoholism (dry bender?) and is sober could have separate preexisting cognitive/behavioral problems other than alcoholism or they may have developed a personality disorder from years of alcoholism.

Originally Posted by AW2486

I believe relaspe happens before the injestion of alcohol or drugs. It happens in our thinking. What ever recovery program we use.. when we go from the solution back to our old thinking and behavior that leads us back to using.

A thinking/acting (cognitive/behavioral) relapse?...interesting. As far as I know my addiction treatment (program) dose not include any information about that exactly. I guess I would call a thinking relapse: irrational thinking.

One thing for sure, be it a program of AA, CBT, REBT, Religious or other...active ingestion of alcohol for a person in alcoholism recovery/treatment is severely problematic and very likely deadly.