Methadone/Oxy ~ now subutex w/d questions
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Methadone/Oxy ~ now subutex w/d questions
ABF just called from day 19 of rehab... his DOC ... opiates. His last subutex was on Sunday AM. .05 dose. For a week, they started him on 8 and then worked him down to .05 (This is the 2nd time they have given him the sub, cause the first week they did the same, and then he started scoring high on the COWS and they re-introduced it)
Now, he is having big time w/d's....... cussing out the opiates and flipping hates them! He has been told to ride it out... he has the std. symptoms, no sleep, sweating, chills, nausea, diarrhea, rls, pain.....etc.
He has asked me to research for him what he can do naturally to help with these ... going back on the sub is just going to create more w/ds right? And he wants to come out of there having those be finished with. He is taking showers, and finding that to be helpful. He asked if caffeine and cigs make it worse or no difference at all? He is wondering what foods would help/hurt... anything else aside from water??? He is hoping to be given an ambien tonight for sleep. Took melatonin last night - didn't touch him.
How long do the w/ds last?
He was using methadone to keep the w/ds at bay... his tolerance was between 10 - 20 ~ 80 mgs of oxy. And was taking 5-6 methadone pills during the oxy breaks.
So.. that is a little of the history...
thanks........
Now, he is having big time w/d's....... cussing out the opiates and flipping hates them! He has been told to ride it out... he has the std. symptoms, no sleep, sweating, chills, nausea, diarrhea, rls, pain.....etc.
He has asked me to research for him what he can do naturally to help with these ... going back on the sub is just going to create more w/ds right? And he wants to come out of there having those be finished with. He is taking showers, and finding that to be helpful. He asked if caffeine and cigs make it worse or no difference at all? He is wondering what foods would help/hurt... anything else aside from water??? He is hoping to be given an ambien tonight for sleep. Took melatonin last night - didn't touch him.
How long do the w/ds last?
He was using methadone to keep the w/ds at bay... his tolerance was between 10 - 20 ~ 80 mgs of oxy. And was taking 5-6 methadone pills during the oxy breaks.
So.. that is a little of the history...
thanks........
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Could today be the worst? Is it the subutex or the oxy/methadone he is w/ding from? It has been about 30 days since his last methadone. He was using oxys a week up unitl rehab.
His folks are visiting this weekend, and he doesn't want them to see him like this ... especially considering it will be day 23.
His folks are visiting this weekend, and he doesn't want them to see him like this ... especially considering it will be day 23.
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I agree with asking the doctors. My AH was in rehab for the exact same thing 1.5 years ago and he was MISERABLE! They did give him things @ detox, though I don't know what they are.
That anvilhead is a tough one isn't he/she??
Just teasing you AH.
That anvilhead is a tough one isn't he/she??
Just teasing you AH.
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Anvil ... yeah she is like a female dose of "Get Real!"
Callie - the doctor comes there twice a week and he already met with him.... and was given 2 ativans. He is gone now.
He has asked how much longer these WD's... but the guru dude doesn't know. I'm sure he has an idea... but he doesn't want abf to start future tripping. Like I told ABF - for some reason they don't want him on subutex ... for whatever reason, it may make sense tomorrow or a year from now, but there is some rhyme and reason for it.
He gets out in 11 days ... and his goal is to be sober free from opiates.. (subutex included)... so maybe that is why? Or maybe him going through this detox STILL.... is going to hammer it home even more?
He told his story yesterday..... and I am proud to announce..... he has experienced the "two step drop" ......... he has gone from intellectual rationalization to gut thinking and speaking!!! He is carrying that gut thinking/rationalizing with him in these w/ds too..... but at the same time.... intellectually he is trying to figure out just how much longer these w/d's are going to last. And why he is still having them, especially cause he has done C/T before and has not felt this bad after this amount of time. However, after talking things through with me, there is a good chance he hasn't been 20 days clean in most likely a year.
He said one of the hard parts being in rehab going through this is that he doesn't have access to the internet to research this stuff on his own. Hmmmm, but maybe this is helping to not look at it intellectually?
I told him I was putting my trust in the guru dude that he knows what he is doing and my guy agreed... that he is as well.... he just feels like he is having the worst flu symptoms and having a hard time attending group and not being in the bathroom the whole time!
The guru dude told him it was w/d from the prior use not the subutex... you have to be on the subutex for a month to suffer from w/ds...... is that true?
It's interesting to me that the subutex stays in the system for 72 hours before w/ds come back again!
Question ... for those of you that have had a short bout with subutex... like less than 2 - 3 weeks.... did you w/d from it? How did you taper?
I know I'm a codie in full fledge motion right now..... but to back myself up here..... I'm educating myself on this ... and I firmly believe that knowledge is power! Also, I think it is interesting in a clinical/text book kind of way!
Thank you for reading this far!
Callie - the doctor comes there twice a week and he already met with him.... and was given 2 ativans. He is gone now.
He has asked how much longer these WD's... but the guru dude doesn't know. I'm sure he has an idea... but he doesn't want abf to start future tripping. Like I told ABF - for some reason they don't want him on subutex ... for whatever reason, it may make sense tomorrow or a year from now, but there is some rhyme and reason for it.
He gets out in 11 days ... and his goal is to be sober free from opiates.. (subutex included)... so maybe that is why? Or maybe him going through this detox STILL.... is going to hammer it home even more?
He told his story yesterday..... and I am proud to announce..... he has experienced the "two step drop" ......... he has gone from intellectual rationalization to gut thinking and speaking!!! He is carrying that gut thinking/rationalizing with him in these w/ds too..... but at the same time.... intellectually he is trying to figure out just how much longer these w/d's are going to last. And why he is still having them, especially cause he has done C/T before and has not felt this bad after this amount of time. However, after talking things through with me, there is a good chance he hasn't been 20 days clean in most likely a year.
He said one of the hard parts being in rehab going through this is that he doesn't have access to the internet to research this stuff on his own. Hmmmm, but maybe this is helping to not look at it intellectually?
I told him I was putting my trust in the guru dude that he knows what he is doing and my guy agreed... that he is as well.... he just feels like he is having the worst flu symptoms and having a hard time attending group and not being in the bathroom the whole time!
The guru dude told him it was w/d from the prior use not the subutex... you have to be on the subutex for a month to suffer from w/ds...... is that true?
It's interesting to me that the subutex stays in the system for 72 hours before w/ds come back again!
Question ... for those of you that have had a short bout with subutex... like less than 2 - 3 weeks.... did you w/d from it? How did you taper?
I know I'm a codie in full fledge motion right now..... but to back myself up here..... I'm educating myself on this ... and I firmly believe that knowledge is power!
Also, I think it is interesting in a clinical/text book kind of way!Thank you for reading this far!
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I know that my AH just did a 3 day detox and it took him a long time to go back to work FT. He took a week @ 2 hours, one@ 4, then 6, then 8. During that time he did NOTHING around here because it was everything to get him to work. He was miserable, no energy, shaking, muscle aches etc. Dr's were trying to work with him with anti d's ect. but nothing helped him. He slept more than my 2 kids and I combined. 3 months later he was back on crap. BUT they did not suggest suboxone. It was @ a hospital, but basically they got him clean in 4 days and sent him on his way. He would NOT do the meetings. Said he'd be fine after he'd detoxed. Well.... you know my story. So the fact that your ABF is doing meetings and reaching out is a good sign to me.
HE had doc's visit daily. Have you asked the nurses about anything?? Also I think just about anything that you can find here from someone who's BTDT as an addict would be useful. Looking back, AH did it all wrong. We're from a very small town and to detox THAT quickly without any followup - well AH didn't have a chance in he(( at real recovery.
Sorry you are going through this. Being miserable through w/d is part of the recovery, but as a codie, it's hard not to jump in and ease the pain. You've said to me many times - take care of YOU. You do the same ok??
HE had doc's visit daily. Have you asked the nurses about anything?? Also I think just about anything that you can find here from someone who's BTDT as an addict would be useful. Looking back, AH did it all wrong. We're from a very small town and to detox THAT quickly without any followup - well AH didn't have a chance in he(( at real recovery.
Sorry you are going through this. Being miserable through w/d is part of the recovery, but as a codie, it's hard not to jump in and ease the pain. You've said to me many times - take care of YOU. You do the same ok??
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Thanks Callie..... I don't think I'm wanting to so much ease the pain... to be honest... I'm just grateful that he is cursing these d@mn pills! I read this SA forum and hoped that I will hear my ABF pleaing for help on how to not take them or get out of the w/ds... so in my reality... him hurting and hating those pills ... is music to my ears! And him talking with me about it on an authentic level and not wanting to "protect me"... also makes me believe that there has been some headway.
Yeah... he would have loved just a 3 day detox.. and then do the rest at home; however, after over 2 weeks there and all the meetings and so forth, he told me yesterday how grateful he is to have experienced all that he has there. That he feels he wouldn't be this far on his own in the realm of understanding the addiction and finding his HP and bouts of clarity.
The percentages get him down though.... I don't even know how they (AA/NA)??? are able to get these percents ???? Anyone know this?
When I go see him and I see other clients there who are getting ready to leave and are fearful of leaving the "bubble" they are in..... I refer SR... this place is awesome..... it's real time.... and there is so much support!
Yeah... he would have loved just a 3 day detox.. and then do the rest at home; however, after over 2 weeks there and all the meetings and so forth, he told me yesterday how grateful he is to have experienced all that he has there. That he feels he wouldn't be this far on his own in the realm of understanding the addiction and finding his HP and bouts of clarity.
The percentages get him down though.... I don't even know how they (AA/NA)??? are able to get these percents ???? Anyone know this?
When I go see him and I see other clients there who are getting ready to leave and are fearful of leaving the "bubble" they are in..... I refer SR... this place is awesome..... it's real time.... and there is so much support!
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I thought the same thing - when AH was in detox, I kept my visits to a minimum and wanted for him to "suffer" almost. But I felt like I needed to be sure he was on the right path as far as followups and what not. It was as if I needed to feel that I had control over the situation - even though I knew I was powerless. Look at me since finding SR - I've posted and ASKED a ton because I needed to UNDERSTAND what was going on.
I saw the same thing at detox - people who you could see were bucking the system (trying to please parents/spouses/courts ect) and people who were genuinely fearful for their recovery. In our town AH chose to go to a NA of sorts. It was very cheesy, they were forced to speak, forced to read from xyz book. AH told me that during breaks he'd see the others and him sometimes I'm sure be outside smoking a cigarette and talking about how they were going to "score" after they were done with the session.
Addiction is a terrible thing and before coming here I n ever understood that it had to 100% fully come from them. That addiction is powerful over them for the rest of their lives. Look at BV here on SR- he was on the same thing as my AH and in deep - but he followed NA to a T. He's been so helpful to me, but he tells me that his gf, his mom, nobody could do it. It had to come from him. That's helped me SO much because he's been there and just to hear a voice from the otherside is so helpful to me.
No need to reply to me - just wanted to let you know that I understand 1000% what you're feeling and what you're going through.
I saw the same thing at detox - people who you could see were bucking the system (trying to please parents/spouses/courts ect) and people who were genuinely fearful for their recovery. In our town AH chose to go to a NA of sorts. It was very cheesy, they were forced to speak, forced to read from xyz book. AH told me that during breaks he'd see the others and him sometimes I'm sure be outside smoking a cigarette and talking about how they were going to "score" after they were done with the session.
Addiction is a terrible thing and before coming here I n ever understood that it had to 100% fully come from them. That addiction is powerful over them for the rest of their lives. Look at BV here on SR- he was on the same thing as my AH and in deep - but he followed NA to a T. He's been so helpful to me, but he tells me that his gf, his mom, nobody could do it. It had to come from him. That's helped me SO much because he's been there and just to hear a voice from the otherside is so helpful to me.
No need to reply to me - just wanted to let you know that I understand 1000% what you're feeling and what you're going through.
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Yo Abs.
Sounds like he's making great progress, glad 2 hear that. Glad he got some sleeping meds, too. Those are friggin KEY the first 4-5 nights, cause for me it was the lack of sleep that just REALLY brought me to my wit's end and almost made me fail. I could TAKE the friggin w/d's for 16 hours at a time, but when you're UP and miserable for 3 straight days and nights in the beginning (as I was), it REALLY starts sucking in the WORST way. Kinda surprised if they're not giving him Clonidine (a beta-blocker), it's pretty common in these situations and helps quite a bit with a number of symptoms. Neurontin (nerve pain blocker, non opioid) is also VERY helpful.
Anyways, I would expect that tomorrow and the next day will be virtually identical to today for him. By Saturday or Sunday at the latest things should really be looking up for him, though. Takes about 96 hours of feeling uber crappy in my experience.
He will likely continue to have sleeping problems for up to a month, but after a week or so you can usually switch to something like Unisom or Nyquil (doxylamine succinate) and have it work just fine (Benadryl/Tylenol PM, aka Diphenhydramine, however, works for squat, so don't even bother). He may also be easily fatigued for the first month or so. But those symptoms are SO manageable after what you've been through the first week, they almost seem like a blessing.
As to your other question, dude is detoxing off of the long-term use of OPIOID drugs. Period. Oxycodone is an opioid, buprenorphine is an opioid. Trying to distinguish WHICH of the two he's 'withdrawing from' is meaningless, the symptoms are the same. Once you finally take away the last of the opioid drugs (WHATEVER opioid drug) from someone's bloodstream, a whole host of neurotransmitters (no endorphins and too much adrenaline primarily) are left horribly out-of-whack, and it takes time for them to return to normal levels, until they do, you feel like crap.
Ostensibly, the LESS opioids you've been taking prior to quitting, the less acute the immediate w/d symptoms are. That's why they use bupe in situations like he's in, to put a little time between his prodigious consumption of opioids and his detox. Had he tried to come straight off the oxys at that level, he probably would've been puking and sh*tting himself, and thrashing in his bed, screaming bloody murder at the top of his lungs for 4 days straight, begging some one to please just shoot him and put him out of his misery. Or he'd have tried to escape.
Sounds like he's making great progress, glad 2 hear that. Glad he got some sleeping meds, too. Those are friggin KEY the first 4-5 nights, cause for me it was the lack of sleep that just REALLY brought me to my wit's end and almost made me fail. I could TAKE the friggin w/d's for 16 hours at a time, but when you're UP and miserable for 3 straight days and nights in the beginning (as I was), it REALLY starts sucking in the WORST way. Kinda surprised if they're not giving him Clonidine (a beta-blocker), it's pretty common in these situations and helps quite a bit with a number of symptoms. Neurontin (nerve pain blocker, non opioid) is also VERY helpful.
Anyways, I would expect that tomorrow and the next day will be virtually identical to today for him. By Saturday or Sunday at the latest things should really be looking up for him, though. Takes about 96 hours of feeling uber crappy in my experience.
He will likely continue to have sleeping problems for up to a month, but after a week or so you can usually switch to something like Unisom or Nyquil (doxylamine succinate) and have it work just fine (Benadryl/Tylenol PM, aka Diphenhydramine, however, works for squat, so don't even bother). He may also be easily fatigued for the first month or so. But those symptoms are SO manageable after what you've been through the first week, they almost seem like a blessing.
As to your other question, dude is detoxing off of the long-term use of OPIOID drugs. Period. Oxycodone is an opioid, buprenorphine is an opioid. Trying to distinguish WHICH of the two he's 'withdrawing from' is meaningless, the symptoms are the same. Once you finally take away the last of the opioid drugs (WHATEVER opioid drug) from someone's bloodstream, a whole host of neurotransmitters (no endorphins and too much adrenaline primarily) are left horribly out-of-whack, and it takes time for them to return to normal levels, until they do, you feel like crap.
Ostensibly, the LESS opioids you've been taking prior to quitting, the less acute the immediate w/d symptoms are. That's why they use bupe in situations like he's in, to put a little time between his prodigious consumption of opioids and his detox. Had he tried to come straight off the oxys at that level, he probably would've been puking and sh*tting himself, and thrashing in his bed, screaming bloody murder at the top of his lungs for 4 days straight, begging some one to please just shoot him and put him out of his misery. Or he'd have tried to escape.
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Originally Posted by Abundance 
The percentages get him down though.... I don't even know how they (AA/NA)??? are able to get these percents ???? Anyone know this?
Oh, to answer one other question you had: If one is addicted to caffeine or nicotine (as I was and am), I personally do not think it's the best idea to try to quit those at the same time as you're in withdrawals. Going EASY on the caffeine though is definitely smart, don't take more than you need to keep the headaches away. Smokes, though ... that's a whole other matter. When you're in withdrawals, sometimes it feels like your smoke breaks are the only thing keeping you alive. I say ... smoke 'em if you got 'em. You'll have plenty of less 'trying times' to try to deal with that problem in your future. Detox ... is NOT the time. Not in my book anyway. That's just too brutal. It was during my frequent smoke breaks that I kept telling myself "Glad I ain't doing this in JAIL"...
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B.... thanks! I see what you are saying about the opiod distinction. I told him last night to ask for clonidine and neurontin. But the Doc only comes twice a week. I hear ya on not giving up the cigs and caffeine. But the rumor around there is that it's really decaf anyway.. and the other rumor is that coffee is bad during w/d's...???
So.. when i talked with him last night... he had gotten a few hours of sleep..... taken an epsom salt bath (said that really helped!) I told him 96 hours of feeling not good too. Thanks B for being so informative... my guy knows I am researching this stuff and that I google crazy like he does... so him not having internet access... he relies on me ... as I do him when I don't have internet. The SR board is the bees knees!
So.. when i talked with him last night... he had gotten a few hours of sleep..... taken an epsom salt bath (said that really helped!) I told him 96 hours of feeling not good too. Thanks B for being so informative... my guy knows I am researching this stuff and that I google crazy like he does... so him not having internet access... he relies on me ... as I do him when I don't have internet. The SR board is the bees knees!
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Boom Boom Shaka Laka Boom Boom!!!!!!
Just spoke with my guy.... he actually got a little better of a night sleep ... and had a hearty breakfast... and is feeling so much better! And..... NO SUBUTEX! I was totally expecting the W/D's to still be going on..... but maybe the day taper from 8mgs to 0mgs over an 8 day period helped?
Is there any chance the w/d's can return out of the blue once the opiates are out of your system? From what I have read... the triggers can produce the craving and/or immediate withdrawals. Sometimes both.
Today was also the first day in the last few days where I was able to share with him the plans I have over the next 9 days until he is home! I was all tongue tied and twisted..... talking about myself. And well.... if you knew us... we are a pretty give and take couple... especially in conversation. But I just didn't want to interrupt his recovery..... ya know? And today he was able to step out of his box and enter into the world at home. I don't know how that comes off in black/white.
I just have to say it here and say it loud..... I"M SO PROUD OF HIM!
*And... yes... I know the hard part is yet to come...... and being aware of it and knowing I have SR and my own meetings.... and mostly being AWARE... but right now... today... I am so stinking proud of him!!!!! He went off to war there to knock that sh!t out ....... and he is a hero! ::: insert war video game noises here :::
Everyone has their story..... but the ultimate goal.... to kick it ... and to yearn... then learn the tools... to keep on keeping on!
Anvil........ over the next 9 days... I am totally booked with things I am doing for me!!!!!!! (and the boys)
Just spoke with my guy.... he actually got a little better of a night sleep ... and had a hearty breakfast... and is feeling so much better! And..... NO SUBUTEX! I was totally expecting the W/D's to still be going on..... but maybe the day taper from 8mgs to 0mgs over an 8 day period helped?
Is there any chance the w/d's can return out of the blue once the opiates are out of your system? From what I have read... the triggers can produce the craving and/or immediate withdrawals. Sometimes both.
Today was also the first day in the last few days where I was able to share with him the plans I have over the next 9 days until he is home! I was all tongue tied and twisted..... talking about myself. And well.... if you knew us... we are a pretty give and take couple... especially in conversation. But I just didn't want to interrupt his recovery..... ya know? And today he was able to step out of his box and enter into the world at home.
I don't know how that comes off in black/white. I just have to say it here and say it loud..... I"M SO PROUD OF HIM!
*And... yes... I know the hard part is yet to come...... and being aware of it and knowing I have SR and my own meetings.... and mostly being AWARE... but right now... today... I am so stinking proud of him!!!!!
He went off to war there to knock that sh!t out ....... and he is a hero! ::: insert war video game noises here ::: Everyone has their story..... but the ultimate goal.... to kick it ... and to yearn... then learn the tools... to keep on keeping on!
Anvil........ over the next 9 days... I am totally booked with things I am doing for me!!!!!!! (and the boys)
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Anvil...... do you feel your foot right up my arse?! lol
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaah grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ... uuuuuuuuuuuuuugh.....
The phone calls..... are usually once and sometimes twice. We have NOT said "good night" to each other more than we have. Our conversations are also on point and not too long. I am on the other end, mainly listening and offering encouragement. Which is very different this week compared to the first week, which was him saying......... "I'm outta here!"..... and me saying.... "Okay... but you aren't coming here." And that was not a control thing.... it was a protect myself thing.
I full on realize that I am to be looking after myself and gosh darn it ... you are that little voice inside me that reminds me.... to do JUST THAT!!!!
So as I walk around with your foot up my arse or like a buzzer in my ear... (how a message board can be so fruitful, i do not know).... you sure do keep it real!
I was thinking about it today.... what sign you are...... I want to say.... an earth sign....... or are you a blinking Scorpio? Taurus or Scorpio. I say one of those! LOL
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaah grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ... uuuuuuuuuuuuuugh.....
The phone calls..... are usually once and sometimes twice. We have NOT said "good night" to each other more than we have. Our conversations are also on point and not too long. I am on the other end, mainly listening and offering encouragement. Which is very different this week compared to the first week, which was him saying......... "I'm outta here!"..... and me saying.... "Okay... but you aren't coming here." And that was not a control thing.... it was a protect myself thing.
I full on realize that I am to be looking after myself and gosh darn it ... you are that little voice inside me that reminds me.... to do JUST THAT!!!!
So as I walk around with your foot up my arse or like a buzzer in my ear... (how a message board can be so fruitful, i do not know).... you sure do keep it real!
I was thinking about it today.... what sign you are...... I want to say.... an earth sign....... or are you a blinking Scorpio? Taurus or Scorpio. I say one of those! LOL
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Anvilhead............... aka Hammerhead!!!!!!!!! hahahahaa! (just googled that)....... how FITTING!!!!!!! lol -
The Hammerkop (Scopus umbretta), also known as Hamerkop, Hammerhead, Hammerhead stork, or Anvilhead, is a medium-sized (56 cm) bird with a long shaggy crest.
minus the shaggy chest part..... errrr ... tee hee
How did I know you were a Scorpio? It was either that or Taurus.... 2 of my favorite signs of the zodiac..... they represent strength! And I've known a many Scorpions who speak in their humble opinion Scorpios totally entertain me and touch a certain part of my soul that other's don't too often!
aaaaaaaah don't get too soft on me now *wink!
But yeah... I hear ya loud and clear! The unspoken truth ... is that the results are only benefiting to us BOTH in the present and the long run!
The Hammerkop (Scopus umbretta), also known as Hamerkop, Hammerhead, Hammerhead stork, or Anvilhead, is a medium-sized (56 cm) bird with a long shaggy crest.
minus the shaggy chest part..... errrr ... tee hee
How did I know you were a Scorpio? It was either that or Taurus.... 2 of my favorite signs of the zodiac..... they represent strength! And I've known a many Scorpions who speak in their humble opinion
Scorpios totally entertain me and touch a certain part of my soul that other's don't too often! nurture your own garden with as much love and care as you do his...that's all i ask. blossom and grow and exceed your limitless potential.......trying not to sound like an Army ad, but ALLOW yourself to be all that you wish and dream.
he's gonna be ok....the universe is watching out for him too. that's why you are in his life. he's a big boy, and he's in a place where he has the best chance to succeed. we are all works in progress........
he's gonna be ok....the universe is watching out for him too. that's why you are in his life. he's a big boy, and he's in a place where he has the best chance to succeed. we are all works in progress........
But yeah... I hear ya loud and clear! The unspoken truth ... is that the results are only benefiting to us BOTH in the present and the long run!
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Originally Posted by Callie
I agree with AH - take care of you! I'm glad your guy is on the right path. It's a good feeling for you isn't it? That feeling of hope.
There is something to be said about growing pains.... and in the end no matter what the turn out... we ALL have experienced growth and will continue in doing so! It's these little breaks of sunshine / rainbows that make us appreciate the good and attempt at make blinking sense of it all. '
One day at a time baby!
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Both of you are water signs! How perrrrfect! hahaha! That is awesome! In other words... you humble one another ??? tee hee
Wouldn't you know it that my guy is a fire sign and I'm an earth sign. Fire needs the earth to stay alive......... hows that for an RA/RC relationship..... eh?!
The interesting part... is that when I'm in full fledged codie mode and he's in addict mode....... guess what? I get scorched and that fire burns so outta frickin' control..... !!!!!
As I say to him..... just keep me warm baby!
hmmmmmmmmmmmm .... food for thought.
hahaha! That is awesome! In other words... you humble one another ??? tee hee Wouldn't you know it that my guy is a fire sign and I'm an earth sign. Fire needs the earth to stay alive......... hows that for an RA/RC relationship..... eh?!
The interesting part... is that when I'm in full fledged codie mode and he's in addict mode....... guess what? I get scorched and that fire burns so outta frickin' control..... !!!!!
As I say to him..... just keep me warm baby!
hmmmmmmmmmmmm .... food for thought.
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