Well, the banned gurls

[philster2003]

Should I associate with all of you banned gurls from HB? HA

Good grief our mod buddy is on the rampage again I see. Well it’s great we can use this new home for our support. A new home away from home and this will be our new home for the future. I don't get it at HB but never have as long as I've been there. I've seen so many banned its just stupid is all I can say.

We’ll just lean on each other here and help everyone out!

You gurls; TBG (The Banned Gurls)

phil

[agent alias]

Ha! Ha! LOL. That's a good one Philster...The banned girls....Yeah, you can say that again. and you won't be BANNED here......so we can say it as much as we can. How about this one. WE HATE HBs!!!! That felt good to say that online and not get banned for it. LOL.

[BeginAgain]

I am so glad you are all here. Look at us - just a few months ago we were all sick and struggling...many of us were still tied to our drug of choice and everyone is starting to heal. We are getting our sense of humor back. This is great!!

Also - guys there is a thread here called "Cafe Central" - it is for just cutting up and having fun and sharing pictures and laughs. Check it out - there are lots of games and stuff going on in there and it's a really fun thread with lots of nice people.

Everyone hang in there - ONE DAY AT A TIME!!!!! God Bless.

[best]

Originally Posted by agent alias

. and you won't be BANNED here......so we can say it as much as we can.

hmmm Should I or shouldn't I? Once just for giggles maybe? *LOL*

nawwww i won't

*LOL*

Welcome to SR

[golf99]

LOL, funny thread.

[Done-With-It]

NO TROUBLEMAKERS!!!!!
lol, ;-)

Glad you troublemakers found your way here..

This is a fun forum.. We tear it up in here!!! ;-)

Just hide from Best and Peter when you rock the house!! ;-)

[woops]

Hi guys
Well - I guess I would be a "banned bad boy" too if I had ever joined HB. Used to pass by and read - but never wanted to join - could see how they ran the place - quite astonishing - and I felt I wanted no part in their mind games. I was telling Beginagain in a pm that I had an odd experience with HB - while my computer was booting up one morning - I got an interface before HB loaded - and it was a long list of internet pharmacies. I reckon these were linked to the site.......... What do you all think? I have read on the net too that HB are completely commercial and that they "sell" their lists of email numbers and IP addresses...............and I have heard people complain of the vast amount of spam they got following signing up with HB. Anyone else have similar?
Clearly HB are not in the business of help or self support - they always banned anyone who spoke any sense, banned people with good information and advice.
For me - it's really nice to be able to speak to people who I have been "listening to" - I had so wanted to ask for help about opiate withdrawal - but could only ever read...........
SR has been so helpful ............ its been the catalyst for me.........I am now tapering my codeine down - and feel very positive about finally getting off these pills.
Thanks to everyone for help and inspiration.
woops

[philster2003]

Woops;

OK now I'm confused by your avatar lol Are you a banned bad "BOY" or bad "GURL"? ha

It’s nice to be treated as an adult and to communicate like an adult and to support each other as adults. As it should be in my book. I to have heard the things you bring up about HB and it falls in line or it would seem to explain a lot to me.

Keep up the tapering, it can work for you, I'm living proof as I tapered from 300-4--mgs per day to 0. It took 2 months and was hell but I did it and you can to if you are disciplined and dedicated to your task at hand and goal.

Good luck

phil

[woops]

Thanks for your support, Phil.
I am managing to taper down here - as fast as I can without collapsing........ for I have to function to work and to look after my family........... Was taking the equivalent of about 12 vicodins a day - and am now at about 7 - hoping to reduce again this w/e.
The withdrawals are unpleasant - but just bearable - and - if I ever forget - please do remind me that I have no intention of repeating this experiment again in the future!!!!
Did you find it more difficult towards the end of your taper? or at the beginning??
Any advice would be so appreciated.
How long ago did you taper? Have you found that you have suffered from cravings - now that you are off the opiates? How do you combat this?
Sorry - to many questions!!
woops
PS - I have an issue with pain - did you? do you? how to address that?

[tinert]

Woops - What is your pain condition. Can it be treated with over the counter meds or not? I was addicted to vicodin/percocet. I was on them for 6 years and had trouble for the last 2 years. They no longer treated my pain and I was taking WAAAAYY to many of them because I realized that while they didn't treat my pain anymore (tolerance too high) they sure did give me a great buzz...then that stopped too so I took more and more and more.... I finally told my doctor's about it. My pain condition cannot be treated by otc meds so unfortunately it was not possible for me to go off the meds completely the way I would have liked to. My doctors' said it is something to talk about in 5 years when I can have surgery finally (it's an age issue combined with the condition I have) but until then I have to treat the pain and find a way to get the addiction issues under control as well. So they referred me to a great pain managment doctor (who also knows of my previous trouble with the vikes) who has put me on methadone for my pain. It works great better than anything else has for my pain and it does NOT give me a buzz (my dose is pretty low, 40mg and my doctor doesn't start any lower than 30mg so i am on the second lowest dose) at all. It's been three months and I get to feel "normal" again. My pain is at the highest a 2-3 while on the methadone (with the vikes it was never lower than a 5) and I am not all looped out and high all the time.

I'm not saying methadone would be right for you...but if you haven't already and you do have a chronic pain issue that can't be treated otc I would recommend coming clean with your doctor about everything and asking them for help. My doctor's were great about it. When they prescirbe these types of meds it is sadly always a possibility that even the most legitmate of pain patients could develop and addiction to the meds. My doctors were totally prepared for the situation and handled it right away without making me feel any worse. So it might be something to think about. Maybe your doc's can give you something else for your pain that doens't give you the same addiction problems that you were having with your previous med....

Just a thought.....
Tina

[philster2003]

Well I fell into the it took me about 3 times to get it right before I was able to get free of the pills. At my hay day I was taking the equivalent of about 40+ 10/325 Norco’s per day. Oh that was ugly. It was right around Halloween when I decided enough was enough and I had also hit my rock bottom. A friend, a good friend, who I work with told me that I was very close to falling off the edge; he was genuinely worried about me and really thought he would see me disintegrate. My wife and daughters also knew something was up but they just never told me until I announced to them my situation.

So in late Oct of 2002 I decided to taper. Not much info was available as to how to taper so I went to the Net and found bits and pieces of info that I spliced together to come up with my plan. I implemented the plan and followed it to the T. I’m not a patient person so I tapered as fast as I could and for about 2 months it felt like I had the flu every stinking day. For 2 hrs I would feel fine then when the pills would wear off I felt like crap for the remaining 2 or 3 or 4 hrs until I took my next dose. Every so many days I would reduce down in pills and I also increased time between dosing in my taper process. It was not fun but I was so tired of the overhead of taking the pills and the guilt factor was so nasty for me that I just had to get off the pills. Let me add that I worked closely with my Primary Care Dr. as I tapered. I made him aware of my situation and showed him my study and plan to taper. He was incredibly supportive and was a big help for me as I tapered. Don’t exclude your Dr if possible, they are a great source of help and support. And I realize not all Dr’s are supportive and helpful, just consider it, explore it and use your Dr if possible.

Finally when I got to around the last week of Dec I was taking about 15-20mgs of hydro per day I just decided I wanted totally out so I went CT (cold turkey) as they say. I went to my doc and told him what I was going to do and asked for some valium and phenergren, clonidine and a few other things and on 1/1/2003 stopped the pills forever. My wife fed me a 10mg valium every 6 hrs and the first few days I just kind of slept through the worst part. I could not have done it without my wonderful wife. Even though I was only at 20mgs per day it still was not fun, it took 5-7 days to get over the worst of the physical withdrawal stuff and like 3 weeks before I really felt better physically. (you know it’s the 80/20 rule, the last 20% takes 80% of the time to get better ha) The mental side took like 10 months but that’s to be expected. I would not say its harder at the end of taper then in the beginning, I was more tired and wanted to get to the end (goal) ASAP so I just jumped off the train. Like I said it took me a few times to get off the pills, the other times I went CT once and I tapered from like 40mgs per day to 0 just fine and that only took a few weeks to do. One thing about taper is it requires the highest levels of discipline and dedication. You can’t cheat the taper, if you do it defeats the whole process and intent. The problem is it’s too easy to take a pill and have all your nasty withdrawal feelings (even though they are minor in comparison to CT) disappear. Taking that pill also brings all your missing energy back and any anxiety away. But then you are right back to where you started. Once you’re off pills for a period of time the energy comes back full force as well as the clear head and good times.

Advice you ask? Just take it slow and be dedicated to your taper and task at hand, don’t cheat it! Be true to yourself, if you can’t do that then you’re probably not going to be successful tapering. And I still get cravings, probably always will, it’s the penalty we pay for being addicts. It’s unfortunately a life long sentence. There is not a day I don’t think about pills or addiction, but that’s OK, it keeps me honest and moving forward. I wish I could say once you’re free from the pills it’s over and you’d never have to worry about it again or not think about it but the reality is you most likely will. You need to now that each day you will continue to fight the battle against the big war of addiction. But I use my tools to fight the battles, the cravings and so far 3 years later I’m still loving life and living life to its fullest with all its riches. It’s so good without pills, so very good! You’re very close to being off pills, hang in there, your life is about to get very, very good!

Phil

PS Oh darn I forgot to tell you I have de-generative back issues with my disc’s which is why I started taking the pain meds. Now I use Advil and Yoga and stretching/strengthening exercises to ward off the worst pain. My back always hurts and probably will but I use those tools to help elevate the pain. Wish I could sleep in bed for more then 4 hours before my back started throbbing so bad but I get by ha But I’ll never go back to pain meds, I can’t go back to the dark side every again, I just can’t take pills without abusing them. Hopefully I can make it for the duration of life without pain meds, time will tell and we’ll deal with the future when it arrives.

[Alera]

I just wanted you to know you are not the only chronic pain patients here. I'm also one. The only medicatin that works for me is my DOC (its not an opiate making a substitute harder). I am lucky, a family member holds them for me.

Right now, I'm having trouble in that every time I get a prescription I will take them daily. I stay in the amount prescribed. It is the pain that is causing me to take them, I have worked that problem out, but I'm still stuck with a lot of days with no drugs and pain.

I think that is the life I'm just going to have to live. Warm baths -- sometimes more than one daily -- reading, and exercising. Yoga if I feel like crap, and rollerblading if its a 'good' pain day.

[BeginAgain]

See Tina - you are not alone dear. Lots of people still struggle with pain management and have been through addiction issues as well. You are not alone and you aren't unique. Lots of people here going through the same. Glad you are here!!!

Love,
J

[woops]

Tina, Phil, Alera
Thanks for your thoughts. My pain originates from an accident where I sustained quite serious injuries - broken bones/damaged joints........... and now along with everything else I have developd arthritis at those sites. The pains varies and I can have quite considerable pain which is debilitating when at its worst.
But - no - methadone is not the way for me to go, I am sure...............I wouldnt want to live with that particular drug and all its implications. And - its not really necessary/appropriate. Maybe OTC drugs could help - and certainly anti-inflammatories work quite well - I was on vioxx for years and voltarol etc. I think that opiates really were not the way to go either - I wish I had never started..............
I have made an appt with a physiotherapist to discuss the best way to manage the situation - and I know that I will be given plenty of exercise.......and will be advised not to use drugs. Build up the small muscles supporting the bones and joints..........
My son has quite bad back pain and has refused surgery now on 3 occasions - but he is seeing a physio who is giving him tons of exercises to strengthen the small musles which run along the spinal cord/vertebrae - and these will take the strain off the vertebrae/discs as they get stronger - and this seems to be working.................. He has a degenarative disc problem. So - my situation is less difficult and there may be a way to manage my problems too .....
I will explore all avenues.
Tina - I see you are a bit anxious about your situation - but I think you will have to settle for treatment of your pain by whatever means works for you - and that seems to be methadone. No reason to feel you cannot discuss that here and ask for advice - lots of people - I am sure - will identify with your situation. Must be lots of people who would ideally like to be off pain pills - but who have no choice due to pain - and for them - dependency/addiction - is an unfortunate side effect - which is unavoidable? Alera is in a somewhat similar situation - I think?
OK Phil - I have been trying to travel alongside free in his taper - he is now off the opiates after a terrific fast taper - and I am sortof feeling my way. Perhaps I should have a set plan and psyche myself up for it - and then - just do it? I had hoped to drop and listen to my body and readjust and drop again when I felt that I could. Maybe this is too "casual"?
Mmmmmmm - will have to think about this. Certainly - I would dearly want to be off in a couple of weeks if at all possible - I have a big "date" - quite an occasion - and would like to be off the pills by then. But - I dont want to risk a collapse..........
woops

[tinert]

Alera - So you are saying that you get a certain amount of pills, and that you take them only as prescribed but that they do not give enough to last the entire month? That is how my vicodin was... They prescribed it as 2 every 4 hours but only gave me 90 a month so I ran out all the time after a couple of weeks even back when I was taking them the way they were prescribed! Does your doctor know that you run out so early? What med are you taking and if you are comfortable enough saying, what are you taking it for? Are you seeing a pain management doctor or jsut your regular doc? I am now seeing a pM doc and they make sure that I have enough meds to take as prescribed for the full 30 days. I have found it is a lot easier to deal with a PM doctor when it comes to these types of meds. And PM docs seem (to me at least) have a better understanding of the addiction concerns and problems that I have, etc....

[Alera]

Tina, yes, I am in a similar condition, in fact I was going to reply to you in another thread, but I'll do it here. I count my clean days as days I don't use to abuse. Otherwise I'd either have clean days or be suicidal pain and nothing in between. I have long ago stopped counting my 'clean' days as days I don't use at all because that would be futile to my health. My clean days are days I don't abuse. I've only fallen relapsed once and my doctor knows all about it. I've used SMART Recovery to stop it from happening again.

[philster2003]

Woops

Take it slow then, feel youself out and find out whats best and doable for you. Like I said I was impatient. NOthing wrong with a very slow taper either. What ever works if your goal is being off the pills. Just don't worry about it and focus on whats best for you, you will find it, we usually do

Take care

phil

[woops]

Phil
Have to say that I am getting pretty impatient myself!
Now - the logic of slow taper is well and good - but the practicality? I feel lousy all the time - really pretty awful - so would really like to get on with this.........................
If the half life of opiates is 4 - 6 hours - then I am guessing that the body must adjust quite quickly to any drop? So - after 2 days (or maybe 3?) the body is re-adjusted and ready for another drop? I should plan therefore to drop every 2 days?
What do you think of my logic??

[philster2003]

Dropping every two days is fast, every 3 days is fast, rule of thumb is 3-5 days between drops. But you can try 2 day drops. 50% of the time when i tapered I felt bad and 50% I felt good, that’s a fast taper I'm afraid. If you want it over fast then drop as fast as you can. That’s why some of us just go to 0 and not taper.

I feel for you but hang in there, it will be over soon if you just hang in there and keep moving forward.

phil

[Twin Lynn]

Tinert -

Just wanted to support you...and to reinforce for you....my strong belief that you need never feel defensive about the Methadone that is helping you live a full--and painless--life. Any drug that is not being abused--that is allowing you to thrive--is a blessing!

I mean....how can any of us make that judgement call to say "while approved Drug "A" is "okay"--approved Drug "B"--is "not"--when we are speaking of drugs being prescribed by physicians--and taken as they should be!

I am on Subutex. Before that, I could not control my opiate usage. Although, I had never "bottomed-out"--in fact, I worked, did all the day-to-day stuff I needed to, etc--I knew my world had shrunk emotionally and physically. My "pal" was a pill--and we were happy to stay isolated in my apartment and "play"! I kept deluding myself--thinking the pills were "super-charging" my regular antidepressants...not realizing they were leaving me with no emotions at all.

So--a year and a half ago--when some kind, caring posters at HB told me of their success with the drug "Sub"--when all other methods had failed--I started reading up on it. And, more and more, I began to feel real optimism--and hope--that this drug might help me hunt down and find my previous life--which had been a good one--before opiates.

I was not fighting pain issues, as you are. But my emotional issues--chronic depression--had, over and over again, kept me from fulfilling my promise to myself--that I would get off opiates.

In December of 2005, I found an addictionologist...and began the Sub. And, from the first day, I knew my recovery had begun. Subutex worked just as it had been explained. After years of feeling such jittery "ups and downs" agitation in my head--my brain suddenly calmed down....and all I "heard"...was a blessed "silence"! :-) And, I, at last, had the time and space to sit back, and--rationally!-- remember life before the opates took over. Sub offers no "buzz" whatsoever (believe me--I know the difference! LOL!) But it DID relieve the last remaining fog of my depression, which my ADS had helped enormously, but could not completely lift. (The antidepressant action of Sub was an unexpected bonus.....and one that medical scientists are now studying.) So, I have been particularly lucky--not only do I feel back to myself---amd back in my old life--but my depression is at its lowest level ever.

Am I going to feel guilty that "I am still on drugs" in many peoples' eyes?? No--I've decided that I'm not. Just like my brain chemistry needs ADs to lift my serotonin levels--my mind needed a jolt to stop the long-term opiate cycle. I had to be back in a mental state, where I could remember what life had been like in the past....before I was able to choose to move forward towards a future. It was so hard to see the big picture, when I was in the midst of opiates. It's only with the Subutex that I could look back and see, in retrospect, how convoluted--and plain WRONG--my thinking had been.

So--if there is a drug that can stop me from craving opiates and making them my whole existence--I'll live with the consequences of being thought "weak", etc. by those who shun all drugs. This dramatic life-change I've experienced on Subutex has been nothing short of a miracle for someone who thought she'd "lost" herself, forever.

So, Tinert--please don't worry about what a small minority might be thinking. It's YOUR body and mind. You know when it's doing well--and when it's "working". And if Methadone is making it work--then you should never doubt or question your decision. From all you've written--all your posts--I have every confidence that you would do nothing but what is best--for not just yourself--but others. You are a truly good person! :-)

Take care. And, I wish all of you who are tapering drugs--or about to taper--as painless a process as is possible! We're all here to cheer you on. (With Phil as the Harem Cheerleader! LOLOL!)

Twin Lynn :-)

[BeginAgain]

Morning all my friends!! Glad you are here. I've been out in the Cafe Central thread posting pics of the family and pets (my fuzzy family) in the "Picture Freaks" thread. Tink I better get busy doing something productive now - hope you all have a great day.

[woops]

Heck - I am now part of a harem????????
Ok - then if Phil is our sultan - then who are the eunuchs???
May I put in a request to be a slave in charge of the kitchen - leave someone else to the deal with the sex????? LOLOL

To be serious for a moment:
Tina - I dont think anyone in here is at all judgemental - I have seen no signs at all of anything like that in SR - no judgement/no criticism - just support. Perhaps you had a bad experience at HB? A lousy place - HB - by any standard - a place which I suspect is used to collect information for illegal internet pharmas to target and market their drugs to vulnerable unsuspecting addicts?
So Tina - let us know how we can best support you? I am sure there are lots of people in here who take methadone and who will be feeling much as yourself? None of this is easy? But talking really does help.
woops