XANAX, ATIVAN, KLONOPIN, VALIUM, great info here

[RUNVS]

XANAX, ATIVAN, KLONOPIN, VALIUM, great info here. Benzos are very dangerous and alot of people don't know alot about them including some doctors.

I m going to give you some real good info links. Please take the time to read them.

http://www.geocities.com/BenzoBuste...Kwithdrawal.htm

http://www.breggin.com/benzodiazepine.pdf

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/index.htm

remember knowledge is power in beating this

You can do it

[Done-With-It]

Another one of these threads........ :-/

[Alera]

Originally Posted by RUNVS

I m going to give you some real good info links. Please take the time to read them.



http://www.breggin.com/benzodiazepine.pdf

This is the first link I checked out, and it is full of medical misinformation.

"All standard antianxiety agents also have sedative effects and in my clinical experience the antianxiety effect does not occur in the absense of these effects . "

It must be a small practice because common medical literature (See L Stein and Francis for refs) state the opposite. That once the sedative side effects wear off, the antianxiety medication still works.

The author of your link also states that many users of benzos will self-medicate. That is only somewhat correct. Some with anxiety self-medicate, as do those with bi-poler disorder, depression, etc. This has very little to do with the medication used, but has a lot to do with the fact they want the mental illness to go away. IN fact, people who are self-medicating are LESS likely to abuse other drugs once they get on the Benzos.

Here is a paper describing how those with anxiety are likely to abuse alcohol. As you will read, the period of time the disorder exists is 10+ years prior to abuse. This goes against what your link states.

From NIH published paper: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...26/ai_95148608

Furthermore, among people with alcohol dependence, an estimated 36.9 percent met the criteria for an anxiety disorder during the previous year. Of these, 11.6 percent had GAD, 3.9 percent had panic disorder, and 7.7 percent had PTSD. The chances of having comorbid anxiety disorders were significantly increased among those diagnosed as alcohol-dependent, with the exception of panic disorder.

<snip>

The NCS found that the median age of onset for comorbid psychiatric disorders preceded the median age of onset for all addictive disorders by 10 years (11 years old compared with 21 years old). In addition, the majority of respondents who had both a psychiatric disorder and an addictive disorder reported that they had begun to suffer from at least one psychiatric disorder before the addictive disorder started. The one exception to this order of onset was that 72 percent of alcohol-abusing males reported that their alcohol use disorder preceded the onset of a mood disorder.

</snip>

[RUNVS]

Originally Posted by Alera

This is the first link I checked out, and it is full of medical misinformation.

"All standard antianxiety agents also have sedative effects and in my clinical experience the antianxiety effect does not occur in the absense of these effects . "

It must be a small practice because common medical literature (See L Stein and Francis for refs) state the opposite. That once the sedative side effects wear off, the antianxiety medication still works.

The author of your link also states that many users of benzos will self-medicate. That is only somewhat correct. Some with anxiety self-medicate, as do those with bi-poler disorder, depression, etc. This has very little to do with the medication used, but has a lot to do with the fact they want the mental illness to go away. IN fact, people who are self-medicating are LESS likely to abuse other drugs once they get on the Benzos.

Here is a paper describing how those with anxiety are likely to abuse alcohol. As you will read, the period of time the disorder exists is 10+ years prior to abuse. This goes against what your link states.

From NIH published paper: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...26/ai_95148608

</snip>

Sorry you feel that way. There is no medical misinformation there. Even professionals have different views. I only posted it to give info I found that was helpful to me. I dont want to debate the issues. I think knowledge is power and there is nothing wrong of seeing all sides of drugs and alcohol and how they effect us.That was the only reason i decided to share it.

I'm 200 days off ativan and still feel horrible. The rebound anxiety it has cause made it way worst for me. And I just listen to my Doctor and didnt abuse Ativan. But Ativan was like taking alcohol in pill form that prolong my symptoms.

Im just sharing what helped me. And by no means trying to push my views on anyone else.
Hope we all Heal soon.

Also I never had any anxiety issues before alcohol or Ativan use.

[Alera]

Professionals can have different views. That is why double blind studies etc. are so important. As I pointed out in the link I examined, the professional was only using case studies, which in science is not weighed heavily due to the lack of double blind, that the doctor can give patients cues, that the doctor will see what they expect to see etc.

This IS medical misinformation when compared with published medical literature.

In fact, I found a paper on addiction and these drugs. It was anti-benzos and you know what it said? That for people who had anxiety prior to their treatment with these medicines, they are helpful. At most, they interfered with those patients who would benefit from an alternate type of talk therapy.

To compare halcion as a representation of benzos is just irresponsible. At one point, they mention that to hospitalization of a drug addict for a drug problem, a premise that is stupid on its face.

[Alera]

Congrats on your clean time. Abuse of any drug, even those beneficial to others, is dangerous. I'm proud of you.

[RUNVS]

I don't know your history Alera but I think benzos use for long term can negatively effect ones life. This is true for me. I can only speak from my personal experiance. I was making $10k+ a month and had a very active life before benzos. Even with alcohol abuse. During and after Ativan use my quality of life has greatly dimished.

I can barley leave my house now. The 1st 100 days off i was in bed.

I think people should be aware of what these drugs can do to ones life.

I think for very short use they can be life saving. But for longer then a couple of weeks I think you can have some long term negative effects.

Alera thank you for the support its been real hard.

[Alera]

I'm sorry you had such serious side effects. That is never good and can happen with any medication. Ativan had a paradoxial reaction for me, and when I took it I was hyper. But Xanax has made me a functional person. I take a low dose but without it I would not have been able to come clean from my DOC due to severe anxiety I was self-medicating.

I never mind hearing case studies as long as they are presented as such, but I do mind when medical 'professionals' claim they are writing a professional paper when not following basic rules.

[skunkape]

I don't believe taking mood altering drugs is the answer. But taking them under supervision is at least better than taking them on your own. I know Xanax is a serious drug of abuse, for my social circle of friends when I was growing up, and it was always a drug I turned to when I was subsituting for my DOC, even before alcohol. My last relapse involved drinking and eating Xanax into oblivion. I woke up the next morning, and said enough was enough. Time to get back in the rooms.

[windysan]

Alera, thanks for the wisdom. I've been to many of the benzophobe sites and I can tell you they are chock full of misinformation. A couple of the benzophobe sites have a cult-like following which is scary. Lots of talk about government spies for the pharmaceutical companies, doctors in cahoots with the devil and lots of other nonsense. Lots of the misinformation in those sites is VERY loosely based on Ashton's case studies. People looking for help on those sites are told not to seek medical help, not to seek treatment, not to trust doctors or addictionologists. Theirs is a freaky world.

[woops]

Hi Windysan/Runvs/Alera
I am going to be checking out the info on ativan/benzos - curious as we have a family member on it for sleep - and would like her to get off - but when she stops she has terrible insomnia. Our doc seems to think she should be able to just stop - have a couple of restless nights and then be OK. But she has tried this and suffers for a couple of nights and then takes ativan again. I have only recently found this site and would appreciate any further info................ from what you write there is a load of controversy over this drug? Can you tell me something about "Ashton" - is this up to date information from a creditable source - where is this research being undertaken?
Any infor from anyone would be very much appreciated - especially from someone with experience of the drug.
Thank you
W

[RUNVS]

I think there are a couple important factors in knowing before stopping cold turkey. How long have you been on the drug and how much you are taking. For me the withdrawal from Ativan was a nightmare and very hard to do.

I had to taper 1/4th of a pill every 7 days to get off and it was still very hard to do. But at least i didnt get seizures by just stopping cold turkey. I tapered off Ativan instead.

I think its very important to dicuss with the Doctor your concerns. My doctor really didnt realize how bad benzos can be for some people until I shared info with him from speacialists.

I still have real bad rebound anxiety from the Ativan and past Alcohol abuse.
I am 203 days off ativan now.

Keep in mine this is just my story. There are people that have stopped Ativan with no major problems.

Keep us updated.

[windysan]

From the info I have gathered over the years I'd have to say that Dr. Heather Ashton's study in the UK is pretty credible. It is based on case studies and if you read it it does make good sense. Ashton ran a benzo clinic in the UK and developed a slow tapering plan using Valium as it has a longer half-life than the other benzos. There is an equivalency chart on her site and directions on how to taper down the dose over a long period of time. Her emphasis is on slow-tapering which for many can be brutal. There are some horror stories out there about people having lots of long-term problems when they kick the benzo habit. There is also LOTS of misinformation out there. I suggest downloading Ashton's manual and giving it to the doctor to read. Many doctors know very little about benzos. Remember that insomnia will not kill a person and insomnia is going to happen for awhile after kicking the benzo habit. For many addicts(benzos, opiates, whatever) insomnia is the last symptom to go away. It's part of the process but you won't die from it. Here is a link to Ashton's study.

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/

Please keep in mind that many of the "support groups" and "forum sites" out there revolving around this manual are kind of wacky and full of misinformation. Good luck with it.

[RUNVS]

Any update how your family member is doing?

[woops]

Hiya RUNVs and Windysan - many thanks for your helpful replies. RUNVS - I have posted also on the klonopin thread............
Well - we seem to be making some progress in all of this in that the doctor (partner of the first doctor consulted!! ) has now suggested that a slow taper off benzos - should be the next thing to try. I have a feeling he has been doing some research of his own!! LOL Apparently all these drugs vary in half lives - ie - the rate at which they leave the body - and so a long acting drug should be used for an easier taper - and he now suggests valium. The logic being that valium stays in the body for several days and can be reduced without peaks and troughs. I have downloaded Ashton and these too are her recommendations. At least she seems to have carried out some research into these drugs - and hers is the only study I have been able to find on the net so far. If anyone has any medical advice to the contrary I would be so very grateful to hear of them - please do post!
The biggest obstacle now is to persuade her to try! She is scared stiff of life without her pills - they have become a real crutch. For the moment - she is thinking about it ........ its a case of leading a horse to water!!
I think that she has a very real physical addiction here - but also a very strong psychological addiction......... and that is going to be a real problem. As to whether she should even try to come off? Or just stay on as she is in her 60s. She is not on a high dose - 1-2 mg nightly but for about 30 yrs!!!!!!
I have to say what I read at benzo org is not encouraging at all - it is really frightening and I dont want her to read it. The Ashton Manual is fairly reasonable and sounds OK - but the personal stories are something else. Truly horrifying. Maybe I should join the private forum and ask for advice - I just dont know? Should it be the person suffering who should be doing this? Have you any experience of this forum?
RUNVS - did you manage to decrease by a 1/4 of a pill every week and manage to stick to your taper? What sort of withdrawal symptoms did you have - if at all? Should she just try to come straight off ativan - or change over to valium first?? Keeping in mind that she is elderly and has been on ativan for so long - it has to be the least painful way to go that we should be considering.
You know - I am really mad at the original doctors for putting her on these drugs in the first place - apparently she was first put on to cope with a family bereavement - and Ashton states that people should NOT be put on benzos for t his reason.......... If only........... With hindsight its easy enough to criticise. But - its quite frighening to see the number of people now on these drugs for everything from bereavement to anxiety........... and the drugs seem to be getting ever more powerful - apparently xanax is the king - strongest and fastest acting - and possibly the most addicting? Surely there must be other ways?
RUNVS - I am so sorry to hear that you have had such a rough go of it. That is just dreadful that you lost your job because of withdrawal from a drug - rather than the drug use. Almost unbelievable. And for your life to be so diminished......... it all seems so unfair. I hope that your recovery is progressing and that you will soon have more energy and get back to a fulfilling life - surely the lasting legacy of the ativan will finally dissappear and leave you well again. Do you think your doctor now is better informed? I am guessing that you were never warned about the possible side effects of these drugs before you took them? Shouldnt doctors have a responsibility to warn you? I guess - there are doctors - and then there are doctors............
Windysan - how did you finally get off these drugs?
Sorry - for this over long post - its just such a difficult situation that we find ourselves in.....and am very glad to have found this site and your advice.
Woops

[woops]

RUNVS
I have only just noticed in your signature that you were only on ativan for 13 weeks!!!!!!!!!!!! And still these awful effects/withdrawals. Were you prescribed the ativan to help deal with the alcohol problem? My aunt has been on for 30 years - has she any chance at all?
Take care - hopefully things will get better and better...........
Woops