XANAX, ATIVAN, KLONOPIN, VALIUM, great info here

[Buzz Kilowatt]

Originally Posted by Barto

My ENT told me it might go away, though; or, if it didn’t, it would get better after 60 days. He ordered an audiogram which showed no significant hearing loss.

PS, I shot from my right shoulder, and the ringing is more on the left side. Go figure.

I hope for your sake your ENT is right! I sure wish mine would go away. I didn't realize the problem was so widespread (50 million. Really?)

There are other subtle causes of tinnitus (e.g. Meniere's Disease, antibiotic toxicity, etc.). Back in 2001 I had an "attack" of tinnitus after a flight to L.A. But it went away and then reappeared years later to stay. I thought it might be related to sinuses or a cold (and the effects of cabin pressurization) at the time, but that's only speculation.

The hearing loss from a shotgun typically occurs on the opposite ear from the location of the shotgun. It's odd to be sure, but that's the way it is.

I have a buddy who served in the Special Forces (urban warfare specialists, among others) and he says his is all gunfire related and pretty severe.

I hope you recover soon. It's annoying!

Jon

[Barto]

Yes, 50 million according to sources I ran across while researching. Who knew? I had never heard of tinnitus before two months ago.

Mine may be related to TMJ. At least I hope so (TMJ or some other temporary ailment that has tinnitus as a symptom). I don’t have jaw pain, but I have clicking in the jaw-joint when I move it around. I never had it before benzo W/D. Also, when I first stopped the Klonopin, I had weird cranial muscle spasms. I read that tinnitus can be cured by cranial osteopathy, so another hope I have is that it is caused by something out of alignment there. And with my nervous system still on the mend, there is a chance that it could go away with this recovery, as well.

But I am not taking any chances. I am learning to live with it. I have talked to several people who have it, and they deal with it. I guess I can, too. What I found most interesting is that, while some people commit suicide over it, most that have it are called “tinnitus listeners” rather than “tinnitus suffers.” As unbelievable as it sounds, most that have it aren’t bothered by it that much. I also heard that tinnitus is the reason that Vincent Van Gough cut his ear off, but that this didn’t fix it. Modernly, people have gone so far as to surgically sever the eighth nerve to the ear (causing complete deafness), but they have found that the sound continues in the brain. Very strange. I’ll go back to Xanax and live like a zombie before I go to any of these extremes, though. (Ironically, one highly successful, clinically confirmed treatment for tinnitus is Xanax!) I could then get a job as a cab driver or something.

My doc gave me vitamins that he says help with inner ear circulation. So, I’m taking those. I’ll do whatever. I read a good book about tinnitus, “Tinnitus, Turning Down The Volume,” by Kevin Hogan. http://www.kevinhogan.com/FAQ.htm He is selling biofeedback (or some such) tapes, too; but the book was reasonable, and he claims to be an ex-sufferer.

Interesting about the opposite ear and shooting. I didn’t shoot the shotgun all that much, but I did love the loud music early on. I also take my handguns to the indoor range from time to time, but I always wear quality ear and eye protection. Thing is I don’t have any real hearing loss, so I am still hopeful it may go away. I read that, as with diving, sudden changes in altitude like those sometimes experienced while flying can cause barotrauma; and a symptom of barotrauma is tinnitus.

Good luck. If you know of any ways to make it better, let me know. I listen to CD’s of rain, ocean waves, or rolling thunderstorms when I sleep. This helps a lot. So, on bad days, I just look forward to getting to bed.

[windysan]

i just finished off a triple latte.

whew.

[Barto]

Originally Posted by windysan

i just finished off a triple latte.

whew.

I thought you were off the dope?

[windysan]

felt like meth...LOL

[liveweyerd]

I have about had it. First there is the Aston manual. Then there are the 3 Drs I have consulted. All say something different. One says I can't get off the xanax. The other gives me a too low dose of valium and the 3d says I have to detox off xanax using xanax. But I have been a mental patient and been guinea pigged on so many different meds over the years that I have learned to pay attention to my own body, feelings and experience. And this I know from how I feel....I am sick, very sick from withdrawals and have had to take some time off work but I do not want to take xanax again even for withdrawals. As soon as we switched to the valium I got my personality back. I have felt well mentally and emotionally and been in pretty good spirits.
Yeah, I know what they say about addicts wanting their own way. I am even beginning to question that definition of myself. Xanax by definition creates dependence. I am very much inclined to go back to Dr I saw last weekend that put me on the too low valium with the Ashton charts and try one more time to go that route on an appropriate dosage. Does the taking of any drug that says do not stop abruptly mean that one is addicted to it? I sure went through the willies when I stopped taking Paxil. I have never heard of anyone being addicted to Paxil. I am not making an exuse to take more xanax. I would like to never take another one. It dulls my personality, my energy and seems to have made me more and more dependent on it.
I would appreciate any input.

[Buzz Kilowatt]

Barto.

Thanks for the info and the very engaging link. I bookmarked it and will delve deeper when I have time.

You made me remember that the audiologist tested me for TMJ, and said I had it, but apparently not enough to follow up. I also have bruxism and perhaps there is a link there with TMJ.

In the short run I find that loud noises aggravate the tinnitus. I think silence is good for it. It is sometimes distracting when I meditate.

I have Xanax but only take it PRN and would never take it long term because of its addiction potential. Would rather have the tinnitus!

Thanks, Bro'

- Buzz

[woops]

Originally Posted by liveweyerd

I have about had it. First there is the Aston manual. Then there are the 3 Drs I have consulted. All say something different. One says I can't get off the xanax. The other gives me a too low dose of valium and the 3d says I have to detox off xanax using xanax. But I have been a mental patient and been guinea pigged on so many different meds over the years that I have learned to pay attention to my own body, feelings and experience. And this I know from how I feel....I am sick, very sick from withdrawals and have had to take some time off work but I do not want to take xanax again even for withdrawals. As soon as we switched to the valium I got my personality back. I have felt well mentally and emotionally and been in pretty good spirits.
Yeah, I know what they say about addicts wanting their own way. I am even beginning to question that definition of myself. Xanax by definition creates dependence. I am very much inclined to go back to Dr I saw last weekend that put me on the too low valium with the Ashton charts and try one more time to go that route on an appropriate dosage. Does the taking of any drug that says do not stop abruptly mean that one is addicted to it? I sure went through the willies when I stopped taking Paxil. I have never heard of anyone being addicted to Paxil. I am not making an exuse to take more xanax. I would like to never take another one. It dulls my personality, my energy and seems to have made me more and more dependent on it.
I would appreciate any input.

Live - FWIW - I think you should have a go at an Ashton taper. She does seem to have great success........... and I dont hear of any other way of successfully and safely doing this - do you? Get off the xanax - and slowly taper off by way of valium. Have you visited the sites that RUNVS suggests - benzoisland and benzobuddies? Worth a shot?
BTW - I have heard of people talking of addiction to Paxil. I think you can become addicted to anything - and certainly and of these "mood altering" drugs.
Good luck
woops

[Barto]

Originally Posted by windysan

felt like meth...LOL

I know! I can’t handle it anymore. It is a power greater than me, at least for the time being.

I am having my second and last cup of decaf for the day.

[Barto]

Buzz,

You're welcome. I have links to a few more websites if you are interested. Nothing out of the ordinary. Just ones I bookmarked after a Yahoo search. I found the Kevin Hogan website very informative. I don’t know that I agree with everything he says, but I don't know enough yet to disagree either. He does approach it from a different angle, though; and I like that kind of dimension in a thing I am trying to understand. The ATA seems pretty good, too. My tinnitus is down today. I’m going to try to go a few weeks caffeine free to see if caffeine really affects it. I have been told to try different things to get to know what aggravates it. Everyone says stress kicks it up, so I guess I’m on mission to figure out exactly how I can reduce stress in my life. Good luck with your tinnitus. If I find out anything earth shattering, I’ll post about it.

[Barto]

I second, third, and forth the Ashton taper.

If the amount of valium your doctor prescribed has you feeling that good, why not stay on it for a while (to make sure it is enough), then slowly taper from that. It is possible he or she gave you the right dose, even though it doesn’t line up exactly with the Ashton manual. I believe the Ashton manual even states that the numbers are rough, and that you should go with what works for you.

Why did I do this in three posts? Ah, caffeine W/D.

[liveweyerd]

Thank you everyone. I printed out the whole Ashton manual last night. And I am taking it to the Dr. that I like the best and think is the most real. I need one who will listen to me. The fact is I haven't felt this well mentally, emotionally in years SINCE I stopped taking all xanax. The rough part is the physical. And frankly the Dr I saw was uniformed of the equivalencies. So, I am going to ask him to totally switch me over to valium and detox from that. I know the Ashton manual has you gradually switching from xanax with valium substitution but I adamantly do not want to take a single xanax. And this last week has proven that can be done. And I am taking the valium at a much lower dosage than recommended by Ashton. As Barto said...I am going to do what works for me.
By the way, Barto, I searched your threads last night as I was looking for others getting off benzos uncomplicated by other drugs.
Fortunately I had all ready gotten off the coffee/caffeine almost completely. I have always known that it made anxiety worse (common sense).
I was not able to stay on the prescribed amount of valium by the Dr and I will tell him that...but after looking at the equivalency charts that's a DUH! I was headed for the hospital. So, Sunday it is back to the Dr.
I do question the addict thing a bit versus drug induced dependency. I have access to enough xanax to get myself knocked in the head by someone who wanted it and I have nothing but aversion towards it. I am not even sorry I tossed those few pills I had even tho' it says I should be taking them. I KNOW what they do to me. And now that I know what has been wrong with me i.e. xanax I couldn't be more relieved to know what is wrong so I can do something about it and be well. This is the beginning of the rest of my life. And it is looking up and good.
Thanks for taking the time to give your thoughts and time to my quest. I appreciate it more than you know.
Have you tapered the caffeine or gone cold turkey? There is a thread in mental health about caffeine withdrawal.
Since I have gotten totally serious about getting off the benzos I have been rigorous with the caffeine.
Good luck and thanks again.

[windysan]

I kicked major doses on xan in just a few days. I was medically supervised though. Took me awhile to get my head back. If you are taking high doses of xanax then the valium equivalent might be off the charts and the doc will be afraid to prescribe that much valium. The weirdos on benzo island might not let you become part of their exclusive cult/club but there is a list of "benzo-friendly" doctors on both of the benzo sites. There is supposed to be a new benzo site that is supposed to be more accepting of garden variety addicts but I lost the link. If I find it then I'll post it here. Try that valium taper if you can handle it. Many addicts can't taper anything at all but some people can manage to do it. I hope you find a doc who'll help you.

Now, I gotta go get that triple-espresso latte.

[woops]

Forget the latte................

Just make mine that tiny half cup of expresso black turkish with heaps of sugar!!!

Journey into space............. LOL

[Barto]

Yeah well, when the two of you decide to really get clean and sober ...

Cheers! Maybe I'll join you both for one or two in a couple of months. Then again, maybe not.

[RUNVS]

http://benzobuddies.org/community/index.php This one they let every one in

Is this the one your talking about the new one? the link is below

http://www.bcnc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

[liveweyerd]

The valium equivalent is off the charts, windysan But I have proven this week that I can do it at reasonable levels like about 1/3 or less. I have done it on much less this week, but want to go back to work next week.
Been in the psych ward before so I have set up quite a good rehab of my own. I've got my appetite back. Quit sweating the sheets and put on fresh ones. Am still reading the Ashton manual. Sleepiness is an early side effect of valium over xanax (what a surprise to me!) But with the week off and the RUFF bout, rest is something to be grateful for.
thanks all!

[windysan]

That sounds like a good plan you have there. Remember that docs in the US are always looking over their shoulders for the DEA and the medical board. If they prescribe a buttload of valium to a single person then they have to have a very good excuse for doing so. If you can stick to a taper plan then roll with the punches and get it done. From what I understand and have read, a taper can be brutal at times but is supposed to be the safest way to get off benzodiazepines. Stay connected with your doctor and keep the doc abreast of your condition and progress. Catapress blood pressure patches may help you too. They seem to ease some of the withdrawals and they keep your blood pressure from spiking. Ask your doc about them.

Barto - I think that second site you listed is the new benzo forum I heard about. I've not registered and I don't plan to do so but it may help those tapering.

It is 6:30 am and I need espresso.

[windysan]

I meant Run instead of Barto above.

See, I need espresso.

[woops]

You need a cuppa arabica java espresso.................
Forget Starbucks - their coffee pathetic - a pallid immitation of anything real..............
Good African coffee......................Perhaps only beaten by the Turkish? What do you think?

[windysan]

Originally Posted by woops

You need a cuppa arabica java espresso.................
Forget Starbucks - their coffee pathetic - a pallid immitation of anything real..............
Good African coffee......................Perhaps only beaten by the Turkish? What do you think?

New Orleans coffee and chicory where I be at. Can't beat it.

[woops]

Best coffee I ever had was in winter in Red Square - Moscow......................... needed it too in the snow................
Then - in Paris - thick black arabica.........
Maybe I'll have to get off to New Orleans - give it a go?

[RUNVS]

Benzodiazepine Recovery Tips

1. Recovery from being an accidental addict to benzodiazpines is serious
business. It takes time for the central nervous system to heal and for neurotransmitters to stop being sensitive. None of us had the faintest idea that this kind of situation lay in front of us. So we are dealing with shock at what has happened as well as the real physical and
mental/emotional symptoms of withdrawal.


2. Recovery is not linear, as it is with other illnesses or injuries. If we cut
our hands, we can actually see the cut heal and the pain diminish over time. In benzo withdrawal we can be well one day and very sick the next. This is normal and we have to look at our healing differently.


3. Recovery is an individual thing, and it is difficult to predict how quickly
symptoms will stop for good. People expect to be completely better after a certain period of time, and often get discouraged and depressed when they feel this time has passed and they are not completely better. Most patient support programs tell clients to anticipate 6 months to a year for recovery after a taper has ended. But some people feel better a few months after they stop taking benzos; for others it takes more than a year to feel completely better. Try not to be obsessed with how long it will take, because every day you stay off benzos, your body is healing at its own rate. If you do not follow this particular schedule, it does not mean there is something wrong or you are not healing. Even if you are feeling ill in some respects, other symptoms may disappear. Even people in difficult tapers see
improvements in symptoms very early on. So don't let these time-frames scare you. The way you feel at one month will not be how you will be feeling at three months or at six months.



4. It is very typical to have setbacks at different points of time (these times
can vary). These setbacks can be so intense that people feel their healing hasn't happened at all; they feel they have been taken right back to beginning. Setbacks, if they occur, are a normal part of recovery.



5. When people are in recovery, they have a lot of fears. One is that they will
never get better. Another is that their symptoms are really what they are like - perhaps what they have always been like. Both of these fears are stimulated by benzo withdrawal. In other words they are the thought components of benzo withdrawal, just as insomnia is a physical component.



6. There is no way around benzo withdrawal and recovery - you have to go through it. People try all sorts of measures to try to make the pain stop, but nothing can shortcut the process. Our body and brain have their own agenda for healing, and it will take place if you simply accept it.


7. When you are having a bad spell, healing is still going on. People typically
find that after a bad spell, symptoms improve and often go away forever. Try to remember this when times are hard.



8. There is no magic cure to recovery, but you can help yourself by comforting and reassuring yourself as much as possible. Read reassuring information, stay away from stress, ask your partner, family and others for reassurance, and go back to the things you did at the beginning if you are experiencing really tough symptoms.



9. When we start to feel better, it is very typical to try to do too much. We
are grateful to be alive and we have energy for the first time in weeks or months. But this can be a dangerous time. When we do to much and take on too much too early, it re-sensitizes the nervous system. It doesn't prevent healing in the long term, but it can make us feel discouraged. So try to pace yourself, even if you are feeling good.



10. You do need to respect your body during recovery, although you don't need to make drastic changes to your lifestyle. Exercise, in any form is critical - even if you can only walk around the house or to the end of the block. Eating well and avoiding all stimulants is crucial. Regular high-protein snacks can help with the shakes and the feelings of weakness we have during withdrawal and recovery.



11. Recovery is all about acceptance, but this does not mean passive acceptance. Set small goals for yourself that are achievable. Try to keep exercise happening. Work at your recovery even if that means accepting you are sick - for now. You wouldn't be hard on yourself if you were in a traffic accident and had injuries; you would work at rehab. --Try to take the same attitude and approach to benzodiazepine withdrawal.

Source
psychmedaware.org

[Barto]

Originally Posted by windysan

... See, I need espresso.

Originally Posted by woops

... needed it too in the snow................

“Need” is the right word alright.

You two would flip for a local roaster we have down on the Blvd. here. Small mom and pop shop. Burlap bags of green beans from various countries stacked against the inner walls of the store. A big bright red roasting machine in the entry way. Fresh roasted beans spilling out onto the stainless steel cooling platform where they are spread around and cooled right under your nose. Most beans have been roasted that morning, or within past 24 hours; none have been roasted over 72 hours prior to sale. You can sample estate coffees from most coffee growing countries around the world, or choose from the many custom blends. Buy a cup, an ounce, a pound, or more.

Oh! Now I want some.

I am going to try to go one month without any, the maybe I’ll try some in the mornings; although, I have to say I slept pretty damn good last night.

[windysan]

Originally Posted by Barto

“Need” is the right word alright.

You two would flip for a local roaster we have down on the Blvd. here. Small mom and pop shop. Burlap bags of green beans from various countries stacked against the inner walls of the store. A big bright red roasting machine in the entry way. Fresh roasted beans spilling out onto the stainless steel cooling platform where they are spread around and cooled right under your nose. Most beans have been roasted that morning, or within past 24 hours; none have been roasted over 72 hours prior to sale. You can sample estate coffees from most coffee growing countries around the world, or choose from the many custom blends. Buy a cup, an ounce, a pound, or more.

Oh! Now I want some.

I am going to try to go one month without any, the maybe I’ll try some in the mornings; although, I have to say I slept pretty damn good last night.

God, grant me the serenity....